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Older Articles

Linux: Twelve Steps to Desktop Dominance
Posted on Monday, July 22 @ 18:24:33 EDT by staff

Guest Essay by Lou Grinzo

While I normally turn a cold shoulder to all those increasingly arcane ways of dividing people into two groups we keep inventing, there's one that I think holds the key to Linux's prospects for success on the mainstream desktop.

The first group thinks Microsoft's virtual monopoly of the mainstream desktop is a Very Bad Thing For Everyone, and that the contender with the best chance of ending that monopoly and restoring genuine choice is Linux. This group also believes that Linux programmers can and should take on this very formidable task, regardless of what Linux or any part of it "was originally meant to be". I'm in this group, and I hope you are, too.

The second group are all those who either want Microsoft's monopoly to endure or don't think Linux can compete in that toughest of all computer markets, the mainstream desktop, or they simply don't want to see the masses using Linux, since it would change their favorite OS or remove a "special" part of their identity, i.e. being able to master an OS that's too tough for the washed masses. If you're in this second group, please stop reading here and go take part in the latest food fight in a Linux newsgroup or on Slashdot.

Now that we've whittled the audience down (but hopefully only a bit), the obvious question is: What will it take to make Linux a Windows competitor in the mainstream desktop market? As I see it, this requires the following 12 steps, some of which are ongoing, essentially endless tasks, some of which have discrete ends:

1. Recognize that the mainstream desktop market is just as different from the expert user desktop market as it is from the server market. The easiest way to see this is through a little painless self-education. Frankly, nothing will boggle the mind of the prototypical, overly insulated Linux expert more than will than spending an hour or two sitting next to a non- or semi-expert Windows user while he or she uses the computer. You'll be both amazed and depressed, particularly in terms of Linux's prospects in that market.

2. Never forget that not all costs are measured in money, and that the mainstreamers have much a different balance between financial and non-financial costs than the rest of us. In blunter terms, mainstreamers are much more willing to pay for software than is the average Linux aficionado, but they're also far less willing to endure hassle and inconvenience. Perhaps most important of all is the fact that mainstreamers think of forced education as a very big hassle. Most of them don't like computers or OS's or even their apps. They simply view all that hardware and software as a steaming pile of necessary evils to be endured in order to get what they want from a computer. They want to finish their work (or homework), play a game, download music, burn CD's, send e-mail to a distant friend or relative, and shop or get product information on the 'net. These kinds of activities are the sole payback for computer use by mainstreamers, and unlike true computer geeks, learning about the computer or mastering it is a cost, not a benefit.

3. Recognize that adding features to help mainstreamers doesn't necessarily take away anything from the geeks. A program with a really slick, GUI-based installer can still include all the manual configuration options you could want, full source code, and more. If anything, it's a far greater test of your programming skills to create something that both Joe Sixpack and Joe Overclock will use.

4. Put a sign on the edge of your monitor, where you can see it at all times, that says: "New isn't better, different isn't better, only better is better." If Windows or OS X or who-knows-what OS does something better than Linux, then by all means copy the idea (if you can do so legally). If you can cook up an even better solution than go ahead an innovate, but don't forget for a second that making something a little better than Windows but very different will drive Windows users away from Linux. This is true whenever users perceive that the hassle cost of conversion outweighs the benefit.

5. Continue to improve all aspects of installation under Linux. The installation of Linux itself was once a nightmare for the average user, and has been dramatically improved with most distros. The people who did this work should get a standing ovation, in my opinion. But the system installation procedures still aren't good enough, and the installation situation for apps is downright dreadful. This is one area where Windows is still light years ahead of Linux. In particular, a user should never be forced to do any of the following to update or maintain a Linux desktop system:
a. Use a compiler.
b. Edit a script or configuration file.
c. Know which directories contain special files on their system.
d. Know about special details of their hardware, whether it's the refresh rates of their monitor, which CPU they're running, or almost anything else.
e. Deal with differences between the various major desktop environments. This includes things like the infamous cut and paste headaches between KDE and GNOME, but also smaller things like making sure an app's installer has the option of putting an icon to the new program on the user's desktop.
f. Endure pain because apps don't uninstall cleanly. All apps should have a fully automatic uninstaller that restores the system to the state it was in before the app was installed, which the exception of the presence of documents created by the user with that app.
g. Do anything special to get TrueType fonts to work and look very good. On a Windows 2000 system, you install a TT font by copying it to c:windowsfonts. Yes, this requires you to know about the special font directory, but that's it. I've spent a lot of time messing around with TT fonts under Linux over the years, and it's not a procedure I'd recommend for mainstreamers.
h. Endure the hassle of running as user vs. root. I'm not saying that all Linux systems should run as root all the time, ala Windows 9x, but that the hassle factor of running the right way should be lowered as much as possible.

6. Do whatever is needed to make a GUI Linux system look like a single, monolithic entity. New Linux users go ballistic every time they trip over one of the many seams between the kernel, X, their window manager, and their desktop manager. Users understand that apps are add-ons, if only because they often add them, but they expect "the system" to look and act like a system, and not a bunch of software flying in loose formation that was written by different people with radically different philosophies. A similar problem of the left hand not knowing what the left hand is doing involves the never ending hassles of mounting and unmounting removable disk volumes, particularly floppies. One of the most counterintuitive things for a new Linux user is the notion that you have to tell the computer that you just put a floppy in the drive. Under Windows you put in the disk and just use it. If you forgot to put the disk in the drive, then Windows complains and gives you another chance to insert the disk.

7. Act like adults in public. If you want to flame each other into Bacobits in private e-mail, knock yourselves out. But when you're talking in public, which includes newsgroups, web-based threads, and discussion mailing lists, treat each other civilly. I can't stress this enough: Every time you dismiss a newbie's question with nothing more than "RTFM" or tell someone who's asking for a feature to program it themselves or start a flame war with another Linux project you're handing Microsoft a big stick they can use to beat back Linux, and you're scaring off more would-be converts. If nothing else, rely on every mother's and grandmother's favorite piece of advice (after the one about not running with scissors): If you can't say something nice, keep your mouth shut.

8. Be smarter in how you promote Linux. Look for specific benefits that Linux provides that will make mainstreamers happy. For example:
a. Tell the average mainstreamer with kids about how thoroughly you can isolate individual user accounts on a Linux system and protect other users and the system itself from mistakes (i.e. sandboxing the kids), and his or her eyes will light up. (Note that this is an advantage that's quickly evaporating, thanks to the spread of Windows XP.)
b. Use loopback distros like Phat Linux to demo Linux for users. I've never been able to figure out why the Linux community hasn't exploited this resource far more than it does. These distros are the perfect way to let users play with and learn about Linux on their own system with zero risk to their Windows installation, and then back out just by deleting one directory of files, if they decide Linux isn't for them.
c. Drop the "MS is the evil empire" and "free software will improve your sex life" propaganda. I know from experience that nothing will convince a mainstreamer that you're a nutcase zealot quicker than such statements.

9. Continue to knock down as many of the barriers to conversion Windows users face as possible. This requires looking at a PC the way mainstreamers do: A pile of mysterious hardware and even more mysterious software that happens to contain their precious documents. In fact, I've long believed that mainstreamers understand better than most self-avowed experts that their documents and configuration settings are where their investment of time and energy lies. Figure out how to move over as much of the Windows configuration as possible in an automated way, from user accounts and passwords to TrueType fonts to desktop settings to app settings. Imagine a loopback distro that included a utility like this- -run it once and all those little things users hate to re-discover and set up, like how to set the default font in their spreadsheet or how to configure their word processor to display paragraph marks. This would make it much easier for users to get comfortable with Linux very quickly and not spend hours wrestling with configuration hassles with an OS and a whole slew of apps, all of which are new to them. Yes, dealing with all the sources of such data in Windows and the even larger number of formats and targets in Linux would be quite an undertaking.

10. Continue to improve all aspects of hardware support. This is more than just drivers (although that's a very important and ongoing battle); it's the whole "end user experience", as the marketeers say. Strive to make it as easy as possible for someone to go into the local OfficeMax or Fry's, buy some gizmo, like a digital camera, a new and different model graphics or sound board, a scanner, or a USB- or Firewire-attached external drive, and use it without hassles. And remember, "hassles" in this context refers to any need to rebuild a kernel, change boot parameters, compile anything, edit anything by hand, run a configuration program (X project, take note), or even see a command line.

11. Figure out how to get more Windows apps running, and running perfectly, under Linux. No matter how much you love and cherish GIMP and other Linux programs, and no matter how much you can argue about them being functionally equivalent to commercial Windows software, the bottom line is that they're not the apps mainstreamers want to use. They've already invested a lot of time (which they never have enough of) in learning the programs they use now under Windows, an investment they consider a very high cost. Tell them they have to ditch all that hard-won knowledge and learn a whole new set of apps, or, much worse, do without certain things entirely, and they'll lose interest quicker than you can say "blue screen of death." What do people run? Go back to my first point, about sitting down with a mainstreamer and watching. You'll see them running things like AOL, greeting card creation programs, games, and lots of oddball apps that will never have direct Linux equivalents.

As two examples of that last (meta-)category: One friend of mine is a tugboat captain who has some serious naval mapping software on his system while another friend is a CPA who has to use every accounting program on the market in order to handle files created by his clients. Neither of these people like Windows in the least, and they've both asked me several times if Linux would be a good option for them. Every time I've had to tell them there's no point in trying, since there's no way they can run the software they need. And please don't even think about suggesting to such users that they use a dual-boot system or a virtual machine; that's a perfect example of not understanding their world view and pushing the wrong solution, and it will only drive them away. And no, WINE isn't ready yet for such duty. It's come a long way, but it's nowhere near ready for my CPA friend (who also happens to be my accountant) to risk his business on it.

12. Produce first-rate, end-user-oriented documentation for Linux, including both online help and linear print-and-read manuals. I know, I know--no one likes to write docs. I've been in the computer business since 1980, including a long stint as a programmer and designer at IBM, and I hated writing docs as much as anyone, but it has to be done. The current documentation for Linux stinks out loud, particularly the man pages, for more reasons than editor Dennis could possible give me room to cover in this article. Let me say it one more time: Users detest forced education, so the easier you make it for them to teach themselves, the happier they'll be. (They'll be happiest of all with a system that minimizes the need for self-education in the first place, of course, but some will always be needed.)

That's one heck of a to-do list, isn't it? And it's packed with decidedly unsexy work that's atypical for most (but not all) Free Software/Open Source projects. Even more daunting is the notion that nearly all of those things must be done before Linux could hope to grab even 10% of the mainstream desktop. Do you think the Linux programmers are up to the job? I'm convinced they are, and I see absolutely no reason why they can't pull it off. Whether they collectively have the will to do this much work of this kind, as well as make the needed changes in attitude, remains to be soon.

But imagine for a second the payoff if the Linux camp jumped at the opportunity and managed all this: They'd free millions of end users from a monopoly and (eventually) create a huge, paying market for Linux software that would guarantee a flood of new apps, making Linux a far more usable, enjoyable, and productive environment for us all. Perhaps more enticing yet to the hardcore Linuxites is the notion of humbling Microsoft and greatly reducing their influence across the entire computing industry. I have to admit that even for a someone as strongly user-centric as I am, that does have a certain appeal.

However you approach the results, the prospect of doing that much good for that many people would be sweeter than words can express, and the Linux movement would finally, at long last, deserve to be called a "revolution." Ultimately this comes down to how thousands of developers answer the same question: Are you willing to do what's needed to win the war against the "evil empire," or are you content with sniping at Microsoft from the sidelines while they rule the desktop industry for the foreseeable future?

Lou Grinzo has been a programmer and writer in the computer field since the Lincoln administration. His prior jobs include reviews editor at Linux Magazine, editor of LinuxProgramming.com, and frequent contributor to Dr. Dobb's Journal. He's recently escaped from geekdom and moved into woodworking.


 
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Re: Linux: Twelve Steps to Desktop Dominance (Score: 1)
by briber on Monday, July 22 @ 22:08:40 EDT
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Beautiful!
Beautiful!
Beautiful!


This is the first time I've seen what must be done presented in such a clear and complete manner.

I especially appreciate the assertion that those who desire to keep Linux as a plaything for their own geek selves are, whether they like it or not, in league with those who support Microsoft's continued dominance of computing!

Thanks for the honesty. Now let me get the last zipper on you flamesuit there for you..... there you are, now go get 'em.


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Re: Linux: Twelve Steps to Desktop Dominance (Score: 1)
by tjansen on Tuesday, July 23 @ 04:43:26 EDT
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Agreed. But I would rather add a 13th step:

Dont try to convert people now. As you already understood all the problems that Linux-based system currently have, you should not go to Joe Average and try to convince him to use Linux. He will be disappointed and refuse to use it later, when it has improved. Go after niche markets (like the movie industry) if you need paying customers. Try to convince developers or experienced users who are able to help improving Linux. If you want to do usability studies tell the subjects that they are a part of an experiment. But never give a Linux box to an average end-user and tell her that the system is competitive. Wait until the time has come.


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Re: Linux: Twelve Steps to Desktop Dominance (Score: 1)
by jhart on Tuesday, July 23 @ 08:41:14 EDT
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Right on! Mac OS X shows, in a lot of ways, what needs to be done to make *nix/Linux useable by "the rest of us". But I wish they had used X-Windows. I love the ability to run a GUI remotely as if I were sitting at the console. Also, I love laptops. Which, usually, means special hardware to deal with. And, Apple hit a long ball (but not a home run) by building in CD burning. But the way it does 3 full passes of the data to get a CD stinks. *nix/Linux could do this better.

It looks like MS is raising the bar, with their home entertainment integration and "you have to buy a new machine with Windows loaded on it, you can't buy the software separately" strategy. Given that embedded vendors are using Linux to build settop boxes, they and the regular distro folks should get together and build a Linux which can deliver both computer and home entertainment functionality using regular computers with, possibly, an add-on box. Or interface between a computer and a settop box over Ethernet? Could the infrared already in some computers be used to control a computer with a TV remote? Bet that would be an interesting piece of coding for someone with the know-how.


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Re: Linux: Twelve Steps to Desktop Dominance (Score: 1)
by smchris on Tuesday, July 23 @ 08:57:01 EDT
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Have to make it a Baker's Dozen.

Perhaps understandably, considering the emphasis on making installation painless, I have found one glaring weakness with linux documentation: post-installation changes.

Yes, I use usenet all the time, but, to give a couple examples:

1. Replacing a cdrom with a cd-rw. I must have gone though easily a dozen references before one book mentioned that the Redhat kernel was configured for ide-scsi by default and I wouldn't have to rebuild a custom kernel. Add a line to lilo and issue a modprobe command. Sure, easy. But FINDING that information was torturous.

2. Adding a hard drive. Knew about fdisk and mkfs but it took a similar easter egg hunt to find a reference that definitively stated that adding an entry to fstab was adequate to access it by default. No, it wouldn't destroy my ability to boot. No, no "sbin fstab", or whatever, needed.

See what I mean? Right now linux is still treated as a server in this area. Gets set up at installation and shoved into a closet. Desktops get upgraded much more often and need documentation to handle changes.

Perhaps it would also be helpful if there was a policy that all man entries must contain examples.

After about a year with a linux desktop, this is what is most annoying about linux right now.




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Re: Linux: Twelve Steps to Desktop Dominance (Score: 1)
by dutchware on Tuesday, July 23 @ 09:44:11 EDT
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I have to say that I don't completely agree, especially point 11 hit me. As I understand it, the argument is that if Linux wants to attract many people, it must make applications that work like mainstream applications. But, I like Gimp!! I like it even better that its rival Photoshop. But I agree, I know professionals who just know photoshop and just therefore would not to like to switch to Gimp. Yet, I think it is silly to expect that programmers should write their open software to attract the mainstreamer. I think, open source programmers should write software they think is good. Otherwise, we will have stagnation rather than the evolution towards better software.

A good example why the author is wrong in point 11 is that if the UNIX-shell programmers would look at the DOS-shell and use the DOS-shell qualities, every UNIX fan would of course dump his computer. Other examples are some of the terrible add-ons coming microsoft. I think Unix has many superior programs, and agreeably, there are superior programs available for Windows and Apple, like the "illustrator" drawing program. Maybe, they should just sell Illustrator for unix, I would like to buy it.


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Re: Linux: Twelve Steps to Desktop Dominance (Score: 1)
by schumacher (ajschumache2[at]wisc[dot]edu) on Tuesday, July 23 @ 13:49:53 EDT
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I mostly agree with the author, but wanted to say:

man pages are an example of bad documentation? I think they're awesome, as long as you understand that they are not end-user-app-usage-guides. They are quick references for command-line tools, and there's nothing wrong with that. They're very good at what they do. The "mainstreamer" written about should never use a man page at all.


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Item Eleven (Score: 1)
by marutdc on Tuesday, July 23 @ 14:25:20 EDT
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I disagree with item 11 as well. I am not looking forward to Outlook (Lookout!) running on Linux. One of the main selling points of open source/free software is that it is better. It think developers should continure to find temporary solutions for running shoddy software on Linux AND introduce better open source options. The author makes sweeping generalizations here that without merit. The Gimp, Gaim, KMail are all excellent.


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Re: Linux: Twelve Steps to Desktop Dominance (Score: 1)
by rmdirms on Tuesday, July 23 @ 15:25:04 EDT
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Well, Well, I would like to suggest a Step 13:



"Get Linux into the EYES


and HANDS of the Public in Friendly Venues"



I am involved with helping a Cafe get their Internet aspect set up. I happen to use Mandrake Linux 8.2 on my laptop and my desktops, (well, I have w98, but its use is fairly deprecated) and I am training them to use it. I even loaned them 2 of my 800 MHz desktops and 2 17" monitors to jumpstart them. I am asking my local LUG (cvale.org) to pitch in some MySQL help so that we can load zeiberbude on top and let the shop manage their customer accounts. See my site and see somebody else's Internet Cafe POS software (Point of Sale) software for Linux-based Interenet Cafes, a thing called "zeiberbude", just released (it seems) in the end of June 2002 (or at least found by me, to my pleasure).



My Site (pronounced as "Jah-bee-bee", not "jah-buy-buy"):



www.jabybi.com



Zeiberbude:



http://zeiberbude.sourceforge.net


====



Now, my OWN site is a piece of work and maybe I need lithium or the opposite, but if you want to copy my business plan for FREE and tailor it for yourself or any friends you know wanting to put Linux in coffee shops for Customer use (but not my company name) then click the link named:



ThePlan



If you dont' want to read all my political blather, just click the link:



The Plan to Self-Employment



(It is mid-body beneath the title "The Java, Bytes n Bites Business Plan") From there, you'll see an FTP site. Just decide what you want:



StarOffice 6.0/OpenOffice.org 1.0 files;



PDF with no extension;



PDF files with the .pdf extension



Of note, maybe, are:



my company security policy


US Govt Search and Seizure policy (CCIPSFINAL)


Plan Tidbits (to give you a nutshell exposure to the Book (bk) and the Plan (Pln) files);



If you want terse info and funny songs/humor, see the trailing links on my home page or at the bottom of any page of my site.



CHEERS! and Let's Get Linux in the eyes of the PUBLIC, not just the Wal-Mart shelf.



David Syes



Oh, I know my SITE is rickety, but pls tell me what you think of my CD cover and the implications of the things I said on it. (It is on the "About" link/page)


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Re: Linux: Twelve Steps to Desktop Dominance (Score: 1)
by rmdirms on Tuesday, July 23 @ 15:44:48 EDT
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Oh,

Also, some more anti-trust trials need to be reopened to investigate microsoft's Palladium (software signing) and their media dispersion across computer hardware. I think this is their subterfuge/subversive means of making it unattractive to move to or adopt Linux and non-ms OS's. WHy? Well, think about this:

:

Make it darned near impossible to use multimedia except on hardware using code signed by ms. Linux and other s/w won't, of course, be signed. Thus, virtually ANYthing that ms can get people to send to them to be signed will mean that non-ms-tool developers won't get for their OS-agnostic (think VariCAD, Opera and others) the exposure to ms-windows-based machines if ms considers them adversarial.



I realize I am not entirely lucid here, but it is a possible springboard for he wary to expand upon. Does ANYone out there see the implications of ms being able to sinew its way into the hardware business? They don't even need to BUY hardware: just get the people coding for hardware devices to use ms signature processes and ms has suddenly TROJAN-HORSED the hardware for its own next near-monopoly. This CANNOT and MUST not be allowed. Perion. Umm, PERIOD!



This means that it is HIGHLY likely that those developers wanting to get signing on ms-based boxes will or may have to drop their anti-ms or ms-competing apps, meaning, NO MORE VARICAD, BYE BYE OPERA and so on.



It is time we slam ms tactics exposure up to the DOJ and get them to take a look. BEFORE the economy turns around and the typically-forgetful (Americans) CEO/CFO/ITO types revert to splurging money on ms since "Linux cross-platform apps are being or could be threatened by ms".



Wondering from where I get the ideas to spin this yarn? See/read:



http://online.securityfocus.com/columnists/96




and my opinionated piece at my site:

http://www.jabybi.com/gpage4.html





Regards,

David Syes


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Re: Linux: Most Important Step to Desktop Dominance (Score: 1)
by mmarq on Tuesday, July 23 @ 16:09:57 EDT
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Whit 2 more FRAMEWORKS on the forge, XIMIAN MONO and GNU.net, the "Revolution" seem going to get harder...

Im very willing to belive that a linux Desktop ends up winning this war, but in 10 to 20 years from now, is going to be very painfull even to the toughest of the Linux die hard...

THE FIRST SOLUTION IS A UNIFIED FRAMEWORK!!!!!

The alternative to the first solution, is to wait that one of existing framewoks; KDE, GNOME, GNUSTEP, MONO or GNU.NET, gets to be "King of the Hill" and drive to extinction the majority of the rest, and that could take 10, 20, 30 years or never... to happen...

WHY THIS??????!!!!.......

Because only with a unified framework all the linux applications will have the same "look and feel".
Because with a unified framework 10 of yours 12 points would be in a great mesure solved(missing drivers and better solutions).
Because only then can the Linux Desktop jump effectively out off linux into Unix and Windows!!!...Yes a windows LINUX GUI ... like now we have KDE and GNOME prototypes...

The big question is: Lyke artists every programmer tend to express is personality in is work, in is code...but... CAN "ALL" THE OPEN SOURCE LINUX PROGRAMMERS WORK TOGETHER IN A POSSIBLE UNIFIED BETTER SOLUTION?????????????????????????????????????

They really dont need diferent frameworks to get the best GUI solutions... They really dont need different Kernels to get the best OS solutions...

They can do better GUI programming with a bigger and better unified framework, like there was a better OS solution with a bigger and better unified kernel (the LINUX KERNEL)... and an application with parts of GTK+QT+lesstif+KPARTS+BONOBO wouldnt hurt anybody if all work well together!!!.... AND BETTER THAN ALL, this unified framework wouldnt stop anyone from express is personality in is code.

The big question again: CAN "ALL" THE OPEN SOURCE LINUX PROGRAMMERS WORK TOGETHER IN A POSSIBLE UNIFIED BETTER SOLUTION???.. or are we going to see them flame eatchother and the linux revolution to smoke with acts of pride and egoism?????????..


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Re: Linux: Twelve Steps to Desktop Dominance (Score: 1)
by brookbot on Tuesday, July 23 @ 20:36:59 EDT
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Just a few words:

1) Linux has to be both easier to use and configure than Windows for the "a-typical windoze" user.

2) There is no reason to compromise the diversity and level of professionalism that Linux provides to compete against windows. Besides, if you do that, then there would need to be yet another OS that gives developers the freedom that they have now with Linux. Don't try to create yet another "evil empire"

Freeware is buggy by nature, Microsoft ware is just buggy.

All said and done I think this could happen as soon as there is some money behind it. It's difficult to develope competative software when everyone has a day job as well.

BTW- Why does this web page only work with MS Explorer and not Netscape?


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Re: Linux: Twelve Steps to Desktop Dominance (Score: 1)
by kayosIII on Tuesday, July 23 @ 22:22:50 EDT
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Ummm I hate to say this but End-Users already have real choice.... They have too way up the pros and cons of such a system... At the moment Windows comes up top for the reasons mentioned.... Who cares linux is there for those who want it and probably always will be....

I would prefer the same effort be spent making the system as fast and stable as possible for professional use (that includes quite a few of the things mentioned above).... The reason I use linux on my desktop currently is because I can scan and use my paint program at the same time.... Something I can't do on any other system.... Things like this will make the system for a whole bunch of people who will be much easier to woo than the "end user".
When I first saw the gimp and the fact that it didn't lock up the interface on me when I opened a dialogue box and treated me like a professional (who knew what they where doing). This made me very exited about Linux.
Since then most of the apps I see are dumber and make the same mistakes that there windows brethren do. Linux should be much easier to beat into this shape than into the enduser shape.... And I believe will put Linux in a much better position to invade the mainstream desktop. (Mainstream App makers like Adobe may be much more inclined to support Linux).


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Re: Linux: Twelve Steps to Desktop Dominance (Score: 1)
by vman (contact@beunited.org) on Tuesday, July 23 @ 23:46:00 EDT
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There is a 3rd group of people who don't fit in either camp, and maybe in both, those are people who are working on OpenBeOS, a truely Desktop operating system. We think that OpenBeOS is the solution to everyone who wished that Linux would make it on the but realize that it will not. OpenBeOS is not ready yet, as a complete solution, but then neither is Linux. Stay tuned and see ... http://www.beunited.org


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Re: Linux: Twelve Steps to Desktop Dominance (Score: 1)
by arclynx (public@example.com) on Wednesday, July 24 @ 05:43:57 EDT
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The first thing that we should not forget about GNU/Linux is that GNU/Linux is all about "freedom".

If anybody think about "centralized" thing, they are in fact "confined" to a singular entity, while they suppose to be free.

Why should anybody forced me to use a particular windowing system such as KDE or GNOME, while I should have my freedom to choose my own?


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DOMINANCE??? (Score: 1)
by yadiloh on Wednesday, July 24 @ 08:41:57 EDT
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From the Enlightment heyday an then the Corel times, there is an almost inexistant interest in making Linux succeed as a Desktop OS. But the geeks versus non geeks discussion is an all Linux favorite pastime. Now with "Dominance" included.

>

Oh really?, so 'they' (mainstreamers) actually want to finish their work? Amazing. I guess geeks don't want to. The thing about mastering the computer really comes down in Linux nowadays, to whether the computer masters you for the most basic tasks, like making work an USB ADSL modem, or having everywhere readable AA fonts, or successfully copying and pasting between apps, ..., or not. I bet mainstreamers and geeks alike would love to 'master' that, beneficial for all.


>

How about a big sing saying "New Isn't Better, But It's Better Than Old".
'Cause somethings in Linux are soooo old. This is not an anti Linux rant, I'd like to see some progress in emerging Linux companies targeting the desktop like Xandros or Mandrake. I'm simply mesmerized by this pathological lack of self analysis in some 'linuxers'. You were obviously not thinking in Linux when you said "new", were you?. On the Desktop OS, about everything is older and worse in Linux (compared to Microsoft and Apple). Or in other words, before any big innovating plans, Linux shall try to stay with the times.


>

Agree. That is something that certainly has improved dramatically in Linux. It's completely automated now, and autodetects 'most hardware' (within certain limits of choice). Mandrake's installer is an example of a good one that compares with the Windows and BeOS ones. The installation of the apps and dependancies hell, is a completely different story.


Various years ago, Be (BeOS) delivered a desktop OS that was equal if not superior than Microsoft's, and it had to close (I'm not naive about the anticompetitive issues here). Linux was present then, and failing too in the desktop arena. Linux is still technically inferior than MS-Windows2000 or XP, as a desktop OS.
In order to try to *gain* market (just gainning, not dominating), technical improvements are obviously mandatory first, however the Linux community (specially the few Linux companies that target the desktop), rather than openly discussing and implementing those improvements (I'm aware of some efforts but haven't seen any results), they seem like *permanently* discussing about what 'mainstreamers' and so called 'geeks' (pure linuxers) want. Either not caring at all or lookinf for dominance. Do I read there Dominance? "Imagination is the feeding ground of horror" (A Study In Scarlet). What a dominance nightmare.

All in all, most linuxers are glad with what they have, and it doesn't get better than that. It hardly doesn't get worse either for the Linux companies targeting the desktop. To each his own, Desktop Dominance for such an OS (put here your favorite distro), is actually a very bad joke. If it could only try to gain a bigger market, a 10%?...

Zero humbleness, no self criticism, unawareness. Or the GPL commercial problems. Or services don't pay. Or plain and simple lack of interest. Or whatever. But no desktop dominace at far sight at all. Yet I'm willing to buy me the Xandros Linux distro whenever it comes out (supposedly later this summer), for the shake of OS curiosity/joy. So for the near future, let's leave it in Desktop Presence, that's a bit more realistic.

[Offtopic: vman, I'm also keeping an eye on OpenBeos, in the meantime I'm going to install BeOS 'Dano' this afternoon, and also try the pHOS (SuperDano) updates (I own BeOS5Pro boxed, 'me no leekings leecher')]


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Re: Linux: Twelve Steps to Desktop Dominance (Score: 1)
by lnxhkr81 on Wednesday, July 24 @ 13:53:11 EDT
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Here's another problem with the Linux distributions: package/program management, as in maintaining a list of installed applications and the option to modify or remove them. Sound much like "Add/Remove Programs" in the Windows Control panel? That's another vital piece of functionality that most users are familiar with (think of all the AOL users who install and uninstall to keep it working). Kpackage and GnoRPM work along this principle, but they only work with RPMs. What about tarballs or more importantly, apt-get packages which is popular with Debian flavors? There needs to be a unified Installer/Uninstaller (ala Windows Installer) that displays the installed applications in an easy to use, comprehensive manner. Before that can happen, the Linux community will have to standardize on either RPM or apt-get, or develop an entirely new package management platform and use that exclusively. This further underscores the necessity of a standard file system and library structure, such as the LSB, so that the same package will install and run flawlessly, regardless of distribution and (this is a stretch) version. I've used Red Hat since 6.2, and I'm comfortable typing 'rpm -ivh' or 'rpm -qa | grep x' at the command line for managing RPMs, but no Joe Homeowner user will be willing to learn those cryptic commands, let alone think of accessing the command line. I won't mention the horror of RPM dependency errors... The GUI wrappers are easier, but not all-inclusive of other package types. I personally would love to see an "Add/Remove Programs" utility in Linux, not necessarily an exact duplicate of the Windows implementation, that makes installing/upgrading/removing applications easier.


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