I am not sure how the rest of you reacted but aside from some choice GSF emails we received throughout the year, this had to be one of the most ridiculous law school communications I have read thus far. Choice parts that I reacted to include the hard reasons that the Dean gives for exactly why timely submission of grades are so important. He writes that it can "complicate the job search" and gives the highly illuminating explanation that it "can impact students in other ways as well." Oh well that explains it. It is important because of the things that it does to the people. Right.

          Now, I know I have friends who were certainly frustrated by late grades last semester, but can anyone explain to me how exactly this impacts us as students? To me, I think it is a blessing. Employers actually have to interview you and speak to you, speak to your references and maybe even read writing samples to evaluate you as a candidate. The only complication seems to be that employers have to open the cans and taste the meat instead of just reading the label- maybe the Dean can send them can openers instead of circulating lists that to me seem to be nothing more than a form of bullying. I am pretty disgusted by any form of public shaming as a coercive measure and the list of faculty who don't submit grades seems to be just that. And then fines? The Dean has so little control over the faculty that he de facto leads that he has to dock their pay?

          Maybe there are students to whom this issue is important and if so, I would love to hear the reasons why, but to me this is little more than a foolish email that has much potential for Above the Law lampooning and on a more serious note threatens the kind of evaluative feedback that classes like this provide. If there are students who feel the same way and want to explain to the Dean why we need more feedback instead of just faster grading of exams, we should get together and formulate a way to present our thoughts to the Dean.

-- ElviraKras - 23 May 2012

Hi Elvira,

Thanks for posting this - i completely agree and would definitely be interested in getting together and looking at ways of trying to make a change on this. One of my personal goals this summer, inspired by Eben's initially confronting teaching style (which was unlike any i've ever experienced, both professionally and in a family of teachers), is to start to get my head around some of the adult/tertiary education literature in order to see how current best practices in tertiary, graduate school, and professional school teaching in particular differ from those in pre-k, primary and secondary education. My next step after that is to begin researching and compiling a list of innovative law school teaching models from around the world, in order to determine if any themes can be discerned and applied to our environment. Finally, I'd like to set up some time to talk with some professors in the law school - preferably those with an interest in innovative teaching methods - about their suggestions for reform. If you'd be interested collaborating on any or all of these ventures, please let me know. Also, some others in addition to myself have expressed interest in the related topic of curricular reform on the Duncan Kennedy thread (Skylar, Abiola, Meagan, Angeline, Jared and Alex if i have read it correctly), so if you do began to move forward on this it might be worth combining the two threads and people for greater impact.

-- RohanGrey - 23 May 2012

Hi Elvira,

I found your post really interesting. I do have alternative views on what you consider to be a "blessing" and the punishment that the administration plans to impose on professors who do not turn their grades in on time. First, I would like to play devils advocate with your description of a "blessing." I know of some students who applied for jobs at firms without their grades, had interviews, and were well liked by their interviewer(s). When the firm got a hold of their grades, which were not up to the "standards" of the firm, they were not offered positions. While this may be a testament to the flaws in basing employment on grades that are more or less arbitrarily given (based on the fact that the candidates were well liked based on their resume, work experience, and education and were not offered a job), I also think that it speaks to the ways in which certain valuations are ingrained in certain spheres of the legal profession. I do believe that potential employers should take a more holistic approach to analyzing candidates, however, I don't believe that what some students may perceive as "slacking" by tenured professors can be contrived to be viewed as a blessing in disguise.

Secondly, I agree that public shaming isn't a productive way to handle the ways in which the faculty may be slacking on getting their grades in on time. I do believe, however, that there should be some form of accountability. If not a fine than some way of insuring that professors are encouraged to get their grades in on time. If not for something that requires meeting a hard deadline like a job, a scholarship, or an application for an academic position, generally knowing how well one read, analyzed, and applied information can be essential to one's emotional and mental well being. Considering that 1L final grades are the only form of evaluation we get after our first semester, it is understandable why our peers would be anxious to receive their grades and why the administration felt compelled to make changes in the grading policy.

I'm personally not gunning for a firm job, but I can definitely empathize with those who may have been bothered by the slow turn around between taking their finals and getting their final grades.

-- JenniferAnderson - 24 May 2012

Elvira I too felt that email was absurd and insulting. I was mostly pissed off the Dean tried to act like this was for the benefits of the students and the Dean cares so much about what the students want, when I doubt getting grades submitted on time is the number one concern or complaint of students. And I doubt if polled, students would choose this issue as the one which they'd like the dean's threats of empty power. I'd be happy to help either you or Rohan in whatever way I can.

-- SkylarPolansky - 26 May 2012

Elvira, I completely agree with you and thought the dean's e-mail (and his priorities) was very disappointing. I was considering sending him an e-mail explaining my thoughts, but if you would like to coordinate something, I would definitely be game. Rohan, I would also love to contribute to your efforts as well - I'm not sure what energy I have to expend at this point, but if you need someone to bounce ideas off, etc., through this thread, I would definitely be game.

-- JaredMiller - 28 May 2012

Elvira, as far as the grades issue, I would have to agree with Jennifer. Not having grades is only a blessing if people actually decide whom to hire based on what they "taste from the can", but more than likely, they wont (unless we have no grades). In the end, everyone opens up the can and everyone tastes the meat, not having grades "on time" just makes them focus on the meat a little bit earlier, and maybe longer, than they would have. Plus, are resumes, interview and references really the best way to "taste the meat"? Does a 20 minute scripted conversation really tell you all that much about anyone? Not only do people prepare heavily for interviews, most resumes are highly doctored. Even taking references into account, something we have a little bit less control over, does anyone ever put down a reference that wouldn't say they were the best person in the world? At the end of the day, grades are one of the only truly objective metrics that anyone can go by. Flawed as they may be, from an employer's perspective, grades are probably the best option (especially when they have to differentiate between a group of individuals with impeccable resumes, interviewing skills and references).

(Elvira, I didn't address the other portions of your post either because I didn't have anything productive to add, or I agreed)