Anja: Imagine that your hypothetical student doesn't take this class. Let's say he learns to speak law very quickly, does quite well in all his classes, and goes to work somewhere prestigious (firm/clerk/govt/"public interest" is really irrelevant). He writes something and is told by his immediate supervisor that it is inadequate. (Because it is -- inevitably, it will be). Won't he just break down then?

I am not sure that people who have gone through the gauntlet of high-powered schools have never been challenged or criticized harshly (twenty years ago I was regularly reduced to tears by teachers at a supposedly high-powered high school). At some point we need to learn that someone who challenges us is asking us to do something better, not telling us we have failed. We will all learn this someday; it was the unstated reason for the Paper Chase-style humiliation that no longer goes on. We all, after all, have something to learn.

-- AndrewCase - 08 Apr 2009

Personally, I enrolled in this class expecting (or perhaps even looking for) a stick. I've followed a certain path in life that has given me many carrots, and I've learned what works and doesn't work in life, school, etc. through a lot of positive reinforcement. Most of my life I've sought more and more carrots and they've served me well. At this point, however, I'm ready for Eben's stick because I think that's what is going to make me a better lawyer. Don't get me wrong - I still like carrots and am looking for them in all my other classes. It’s just that I feel more comfortable getting a stick from Eben than I would from any other professor I've had here. I think it has something to do with the candid discussion that goes on in our class, as well as the fact that I don't think that a stick from Eben means that he will think less of me. I think a stick from Eben means he's pushing me further because he knows I can do better. So in my case, at least, I expect to learn more from Eben’s tough love approach than I would learn if he sugar-coated his feedback for me.

Nonetheless, I hope posting this doesn’t mean I’m going to feel the stick on my transcript at the end of the semester. But as Eben has proposed to the class, would that really make me less of a lawyer if it were to happen? Probably not.

-- CarolineElkin - 08 Apr 2009

I agree with you that the tough approach is not an effective way to teach everyone. I disagree with what appears to be your underlying assumption that everybody gets a tough approach in this class. I read almost all of the paper comments that were posted over the last several weeks, and found most of them to be reasonable on the verge of downright gentle. The papers that featured more red pen than others were generally authored by people who seem to have a relationship with Professor Moglen that would warrant Eben's assumption that "they could take it," or that such criticism would motivate them more than general soft platitudes.

As I've mentioned before, the "tough love" given to Theo in HowToFixHealthcare was intimidating to me. However, Eben's explanation for that approach in class made sense, in that his responses were geared towars Theo. As Theo said in BaitSwitch:

For all the contrast, conflict creates creativity. I have learned a lot about various healthcare models and have thought about it more than before; resulting in my revising a post which was originally sub par.I think Professor Moglen likes to stir things up and make you rethink your basic assumptions. As do I, which has contributed to a positive feedback loop.

The flaw in the approach was that the comments could be read by all of us, many of whom had not received feedback yet and were concerned that the same approach would be used for us, shattering our fragile psyche (as in your hypothetical). I suspect that concern is somewhat minimized now, after we have discussed this topic in class at great length and have received some feedback. Even for those of us who got negative feedback, I wonder if it was as bad or worse as anyone expected.

If I may ask, was this hypothetical meant to reflect your own feelings, Anja, or was it really a hypo? You strike me was one of the people who have engaged with Professor Moglen on a level that would suggest that you are comfortable with the tough love.

-- MolissaFarber - 07 Apr 2009