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PawningOurLicenses 14 - 04 Feb 2010 - Main.EbenMoglen
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| | A major theme of the class seems to include that many, if not most, Columbia students will go out and pawn their licenses. This idea seems to strongly correlate with the vast percentage of students who go to work for a corporate law firm, though is not the only way this pawning occurs. What I want to ask is why do so many students choose this career path when most are aware of the consequences, for themselves and society, that result from that decision. This is something I am currently wrestling with, and will not deny that I am looking towards a possible career at a large law firm if I could get one. The dilemma I am facing is why do I want such a career, knowing that most associates seem to be miserable at their jobs, the ratio of pay/hours worked, and the chance of promotion is minimal within the firm so that will never have any real control and end up getting trapped in a certain lifestyle that becomes hard to escape from. From my perspective, it is hard to pinpoint the source, because I can't really believe that Columbia actively pushes it more so than other careers, and people find ways of paying of their loans one way or another, just the length of time it takes will differ. What I seem to question myself lately is do such large corporate firms actually give monetary rewards and prestige that is worth it and can actually be utilized towards a true career path. That I don't know. What seems to force so many students hands is that we are forced to choose a career after one year of law school, having taken no substantive course work or ability to explore different fields. This is a strange contrast to college where many of us took at least 2 years to figure out what major, and even longer to figure out what we want to do afterward. So why do so many of us choose to work for a large law firm?
-- DavidGarfinkel - 03 Feb 2010 | | |
- I agree with the factors Mike listed that lead law students to make irrational choices, but I just want to add the simple possibility that students don't even know that other "rational" options even exist. Besides presenting the polar opposites of firm jobs and public interest work, Columbia does not make it a priority to help students really figure out the full spectrum of choices available to them. -- SamHershey - 03 Feb 2010
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> | No wonder you're in such a hurry to reject my help,
having determined after fourteen weeks that what I am making a
priority isn't a priority around here. | | | I think there are some key reasons as to why people may take a position they would not "rationally" want. I think that students need to be aware of these temptations in order to avoid them.
1) It is easier to get a job with a big firm. The law school is designed to funnel you into a firm job. The firms come here to recruit and interview you. Career services pushes students to do EIP which is dominated by large firms. The jobs are there and they are offered to students without the students having to do much work. | | |
- I also want to address Sam's comment that students might not be aware of certain "rational" options. Sure, Columbia seems to fit jobs into two neat little categories of public interest and firm jobs- but don't we, as students and people, need to take some responsibility in figuring out what those choices are? That said, I do agree with your basic premise- I certainly get the impression at CLS that there is very much a "one or the other" situation, and I wonder what would be a better approach? The idea that many of us talk about having money OR being fulfilled, as mentioned by Eben on the first day of class, speaks to this- and if we don't try particularly hard to look further, it's easy to believe that the two are mutually exclusive. What do you think would be a better way of educating students to approach careers with that in mind? -- JessicaHallett - 03 Feb 2010
What I wanted to explore is why do students choose to go to such jobs knowing full well the negative consequences. I find the idea of stating that we are being simply irrational baseless and some hypocritical. I do not believe that come August students suddenly become irrational, or that the choice itself is necessary irrational. I may be wrong, but what is needed is more concrete ideas of what the consequences are for pursuing such career paths. One common talking point we hear is that taking such jobs is temporary, so as to pay our loans and gain valuable experience so as to pursue our true goals. This begs the question of what actually happens, do some succeed in escaping or do we end up getting trapped. One problem I have is assuming that every lawyer truly cares about being able to choose his or her own clients and doing justice. In reality, I believe that working simply for monetary value and self pleasure (whatever form that takes) is as valid as working for justice and the public good. This is based on the proposition that value in the end is completely personal. Unless you believe in some moral or religious order, which includes a higher being and probably an afterlife, then it is irrelevant in terms of intrinsic value what one does. So what I want to learn is what are the reasons people pursue such careers, the thoughts that such students, including most of us have, when we are thinking about which firm to apply to and where we want to be 5 years from now. | |
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