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MagicAccordingToFrank 16 - 03 Feb 2008 - Main.AdamCarlis
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| META TOPICPARENT | name="TextDiscussionCohenandFrank" |
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Eben alluded to us not quite getting the meaning of "magic" according to Frank. Let's use this space to work it out.
-- AdamCarlis - 02 Feb 2008 | | | Additional edits made AdamCarlis - 02 Feb 2008
[Adam, I think your edits improve clarity at the cost of correctness. Frank includes "circumstances where luck plays a major role", but I omitted it because it seemed to describe ANY activity before the application of science or magic, and seemed synonymous with "unknown". Also, your paraphrase of my last sentence omits the quote from Frank which includes the "necessary" element of danger, so that we get uncertainty and danger out of uncertainty. Now it looks like I'm saying "1 + 0 = 2"] -- AndrewGradman - 02 Feb 2008 | |
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- There is a difference between luck and "unknown," at least in the historical context. Frank differentiates between events that couldn't be rationally predicted by "primitive" folks because they didn't understand the way the world works (boats capsizing in the open ocean) and knowledge itself. Basically, magic (in the form of rituals) was used, not to predict the unknown, but to ensure good luck. Later, it was used to divine the past (trial by ordeal). To me this matters in the analogy he makes to the modern court system where scholars use magical thinking to assert rules of jurisprudence that, while appearing to solidify the objectivity of our trial system (an attempt at taking luck out of the equation), don't stand up to scrutiny. -- AdamCarlis - 02 Feb 2008
| | | Andrew, I think Frank's quote on the top of page 43 supports your definition of magic: "Magic, then, appears to be primitive man's ways of dealing with specific practical problems when he is in peril or in need, and his strong desires are thwarted because his rational techniques, based upon observation, prove ineffective."
What seems central in your calling magic a "tool" to solve practical problems and Frank's calling it a "way of dealing" with practical problems is that magic is defined in terms of the function it has in a culture, not in terms of its inherent qualities. |
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| Revision 16 | r16 - 03 Feb 2008 - 13:34:20 - AdamCarlis |
| Revision 15 | r15 - 03 Feb 2008 - 06:42:03 - JuliaS |
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