japantoday > technology

Gov't considers abandoning Microsoft Windows

Sunday, November 17, 2002 at 07:30 JST
TOKYO — The Japanese government is reviewing the possibility of no longer using Microsoft Corp's Windows operating system as part of its plans to boost computer security within the government, the Asahi Shimbun newspaper reported Saturday.

Most of the government's servers and personal computers use Windows software.

But the government is interested in studying alternative operating systems, especially open-source programs such as Linux, the newspaper said.

Open-source programs do not require licensing fees and can be modified because their source codes are made available for free.

The Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport will set up a panel of experts to study the alternatives and what systems other governments use in the next fiscal year beginning April 1, the newspaper said.

The ruling Liberal Democratic Party's panel on promoting electronic government asked the government in August to develop or introduce an open-source program for security reasons, it said. (Kyodo News)

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29 Total Messages (Click here to show all)
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Jolly good idea! Jacu  (Nov 18 2002 - 01:20)

Upgrade to Linux. You save money and nerves as a result. EU is planning to do the same. Does wonders for productivity and security in Japan and EU. Soundcore compared open source to communism -ha. You have more reason to compare Microsoft to communism: -Bill stole the code that others in the same coding club had made. He registered all the rights of all the code he could get to be his private property.

Linus Torvalds W505a  (Nov 18 2002 - 13:24)

Wasn't Linus Pauling the guy who theorized the single-helix DNA in the 1940's, and advocated taking mega doses of Vitamin C? Either that, or he was the guy with the blanket . . . A lot of good computer info though

Would you trust Bill Gates with your data? Hikozaemon  (Nov 18 2002 - 14:52)

As a IT-Law grad, and having worked in a regular law firm, an IP firm, and then as a system engineer/system consultant for 3 years, this is kind of a pet topic for me. I don't pretend to know an awful lot about the technicalities of advanced programming, but I have always been in favour of punishing Microsoft for abusing its market position, not by fining it or breaking it up, but by simply ordering it to make the Windows code itself open source. Reason - practical fact most regular non-Apple using home PC users accept is that Windows is as much a default part of a computer as a keyboard or mouse. It doesn't matter how much more stable, efficient, fast, and flexible other OSs are. Nobody can be bothered learning how to use a PC from scratch all over again to accomodate an unfamiliar OS requiring different software. The solution is not trying to make it easier for Linux to compete with Windows. The solution is creating a new market for Windows, and accept the reality that there is basically no competitive market for OS systems, but rather a number of separate markets, one big one for Windows, one small one for Apple, and a few boutique markets for Unix and Linux. Accept that Windows based PCs are a separate category of product and break it up, by allowing companies to make competing versions of Windows - some fast and no-frills, some with lots of features no one needs that are slow and resource hungry like the version Microsoft makes. However, that is a sidetrack from the current issue which is; why would Japan want to avoid using Microsoft for 'security reasons'? 1) Microsoft's evil empire rap and ubiquity makes it a target for hackers - who will spend hours trying to find Windows flaws for publicity, and to get into the wide number of systems that rely on it. 2) Microsoft is abusing its market position to impose onerous pricing and contract conditions (most of which would never hold up if challenged). 3) There are rumours, and a few stories supporting various theories that any Microsoft based PC is easily vulnerable to US government espionage. - Any conspiracy magazine will tell you about a deal between Gates and Federal law agencies that he gets his monopoly in exchange for cooperation with features that give law enforcement the ability to access machines using its software via a back door. The back-door stuff is pretty much rumour, but about two years back a Canadian computer security company (ie - hackers who collect money for telling people how weak their stuff is) claimed that they found a key code in a registry file that gave 'back-door' access to any Windows PC. To make matters worse for Microsoft, the filename was apparently 'NSA'. That, combined with a few other laws in the US, particularly extra-territorial laws that prohibit anyone outside the US making strong encyption over a certain level (48-bit?) and making it illegal for anyone anywhere in the world to market a code without registering it in the US with a logarhythim to break it - pretty much paint a nice picture that storing government data on Windows based databases is as good as printing all the data out and faxing it directly to Langley yourself. I'm not sure if that's the case, but if the Japanese government wants to switch to home-grown secure OS software, I find that a relief. Provided of course they don't hire Aum Shinrikyo to develop such software for them, like the Defense Ministry did. Peace

Mr. Hikozaemon, you say Bill Gates and Microsoft JohnnyNadsCrusher  (Nov 18 2002 - 14:56)

is evil but I read that he donated one billion dollars to third world life-saving charities, plus the free computers to same. I don't believe he's evile in your Doctor Evil sense of the word.

Mr. Hikozaemon, I erred and I apologise. JohnnyNadsCrusher  (Nov 18 2002 - 16:26)

LG emailed me and refreshed my memory: It was the Yank Ted Turner who donated one billion dollars to the United Nads, and it was Bill Gates who donated TWENTY billion dollars to third world life-saving charities. Sorry for the confusion. Ta.

What Happens Next: trappings  (Nov 18 2002 - 16:36)

Govt offers project for tender. A bunch of shosha form a dango and Mitsutomo get the project for the equivalent of the GDP of a couple of minor OECD nations. 30% is kicked upstairs to the LDP, 500 Mitsutomo wallahs faff around with the project for a couple of years before outsourcing it to some dodgy Japanese start up in Shibuya for 10% of the original price; that start up immediately passes it on to a gaijin run software company that actually knows what it's doing. Two years have now passed, but the project has to be completed by tomorrow on a budget of 500,000 yen. The boss runs out and grabs a fairly stable GUI version of Linux 'of the shelf' and delivers on time. Unfortunately, ministry officials have trouble because the 'pictures' are different from the regular Windows 'pictures' and quickly brush said project under carpet. Repeat ad nauseum.

Man all kinds come out for this.. wyn  (Nov 18 2002 - 16:57)

Spurs: eloquent. No thats not sarcasm really its not. soundcore: Oh what a beautifully rendered slippery slope argument. If you allow OSS now the whole world will slide into communism. Get a grip, It is much more likely that some corp. will try to legislate OSS out of existance (see: palladium). Linux isn't making anyone else release their source code. Any code under the BSD licences can be forked, modified, and closed by any group. IP is a completely different issue, and the two are not mutually exclusive. Your fevered paranoia is amusing, but you clearly don't understand OSS, and its implications at all. I find it amusing that you are threatened by people giving away the fruits of their own labor. Where do you get off trying to take away _their_ freedom. Maybe we should make donating to charity, and volunteering illegal also? Hiko: interesting viewpoint, and I only have a few nits to pick. It is often ignored that MS is completely in their rights to be a monopoly. Antitrust laws obviously don't make being a monopoly illegal. It does however make using that monopoly as leverage in other markets is illegal. Forcing MS to release their source code would not be fair really. It is their code afterall. However, they are holding all aplication developers hostage by carefully guarding their APIs, and document formats. This allows them to control who can effectively interact with Windows, and is how they have constantly abused their monopoly. The best solution in my opinion would be forcing MS to open up their APIs with no strings attached. As for the security side, while there may be truth to rumors of backdoors etc. A more realistic concern is MS security through obscurity philosophy. There is no way to audit the code yourself, and you can't count of MS to tell you in a timely manner if a vulnerability has been found. They have been known to sit on security issues for a year before the community found the bug, and forced their hand. Add to this EULAs that have significant data privacy implications, and I can certainly see why Govs. are considering moving away from MS. --wyn

Go Nads, Go! Hikozaemon  (Nov 18 2002 - 17:12)

I think it is great that the 'geek who inherited the earth' spent 20b on charity. I would remind you of JD Rockerfeller, who founded the UN. I hear even Al Capone was known to spend money on the arts. Whilst it is wonderful that monopolists do so much good for the world with money earned through extortion of captive markets, I don't know that the fact that they spend so much on charity should be a justification for allowing them to run rampant above the law. We'd all like to think that King Bill would be just as generous even if he wasn't getting massive tax write-offs for the donations he is making. But even if he did, the question is not of how he uses his wealth, but whether society as a whole has benefited by the means he took to obtain that wealth. I am not going to trash Microsoft for being a competitive company with a good product that people like to use. It is the job of every company to aspire to be as dominant and profitable as they can be, for their shareholders. The question is one of a legal framework being in place that protects consumers at the same time, from being put in a position where they have no choice, or ability to influence the market to provide products at competitive prices and of competitive quality (the instability of Win 98 is good proof of that). Microsoft is now in such a position of power over its consumers, that it can dictate to them what software to use, even outside its OS software market, as it has demonstrated through its Internet Explorer and is gradually doing with its Media Player software, as well as Office. That is not a sign that Bill is evil - it is a sign that governments have gone to sleep and allowed Microsoft to dominate and distort the home PC market in such a way that it harms the millions of PC users who don't own Microsoft shares. The question for regulators should be - how to make the PC OS market competitive again? I don't believe that Microsoft should be fined, because it hasn't done anything wrong as such - it has just been a very successful, agressive competitive company. I believe that the best way to protect consumers and restore consumer choice is to intervene to create the opportunity for competition in a new market within the monopoly of Windows dominance. Solution, let anyone - disgruntled ex-microsoft employees included, use Windows source code to make better, cheaper, more secure versions of windows under contract conditions that do not destroy the ability of software makers to survive in markets Microsoft decides to dominate. Consumers will get better value, and maybe you will get three Bill Gates's giving 20b EACH to charities, instead of just the one. Peace

Gov't considers abandoning Microsoft Windows fullback  (Nov 18 2002 - 17:16)

And one important point has not been addressed: Linux is no more 'secure' than Windows. I suspect that a Japanese home grown OS (and the economic returns) are more the object than security. Just 2 hours ago I was in Doutor and overheard a Japanese network guru explaining to some bucho-looking fellow that the D: drives in the company PCs was for data back up. When you consider the general state of Japanese IT, it doesn't really matter what OS is used. Security and risk management is about as sophisticated as kerosene heaters. In the end, the US will probably find a way to squash this Japanese domestic project. The Echelon surveillence system (Australia, UK and US) would be limited by new encryption and protocols.

Nerds! Ford Prefect  (Nov 18 2002 - 17:54)

I warned you didn`t I? (2nd post in this thread)... We`re flooded with NERDS!!!!!!!!

One Nerd to Another Hikozaemon  (Nov 18 2002 - 18:13)

Sorry fullback, just needed a moment to adjust my pocket protector, uhuck! Linux is potentially more secure than Windows because unlike Windows, you are not in a Black Box situations where your enemies (hackers) are likely to know more about the security flaws of your software than you are (because Microsoft won't let law abiding users decompile its code). Linux on the other hand, being open source, can be modified with security mechanisms that only the modifier is aware of. Whilst knowing how to get through a single Windows flaw gives you access to millions of PCs, modified Linux OS software potentially not only gives you control over your own security, but provides little incentive to hackers other than knowing they have breached one system (which they would have to learn from scratch). Plus you avoid all the paranoia about hidden Microsoft designed back doors and the like. Simple fact is that I don't want to use Linux. I like Windows. I would prefer to have a Windows with all the advantages of Linux and its offshoots - this is achievable by forcing Microsoft to give up the copyright on its code. Now, back to my accordion lessons...

Ah yes... fullback  (Nov 18 2002 - 20:11)

and I still keep my mini slide rule inside my pocket protector. As you said Hiko, "... potentially more secure..." The apps ported to, or native to the OS are also a major problem. Plus user inabilty to configure correctly. I do think Windows LE and LE Pro are more than most users need anyway. Windows LE = Lamer's Edition (Browser, e-mail, mp3 player). Windows LE Pro (Browser, e-mail, Wordpad, mp3)player) 35,000 yen for XP Pro is a ridiculously high, single-machine lease cost for a product that does not perform as advertised, and the lessor has no rights whatsoever to remedy. I don't particularly like Windows, or Linux, or Mac. But I do like my pocket protector.

problem with security wyn  (Nov 18 2002 - 21:09)

Lets set aside for a second that open allows for proactive security through source code audits. It is a huge advantage especially if you setup a project to do those audits. Consider the value add projects like OpenBSD etc. The reality is that configuration is 90% of security, and a competent administrator is going to reasonable be able to secure Windows as well as Linux. The reality is point click, and drool administration that Windows fosters is the majority of the problem. Completely unqualified people are able to create the facade that they can administrate because any chimp can create an account etc. without understanding anything they are doing. This is a primary reason for why Windows has such a bad reputation. There are a legion of blithering idiots with the title of MCSE admining systems. With linux, and its kin it is much more difficult to administer a box without a clue. If you can set it up at all you are automatically more likely to know more about the system you are admining. Add to that the fact that Windows is very guilty of brain dead defaults where everything is turned on, and you have our current situation. As for Mr. Prefect, run in terror for your very handle makes you a nerd whether you are a smart one or not. --wyn

fullback wyn  (Nov 18 2002 - 21:28)

Actually, applications should have limited ability to compromise system security, and in many cases a properly hardened box with a minimal priv. policy, and chrooted services should not be compromised even if the software they are using is bug ridden. With developement of systrace, and signed execs in NetBSD/OpenBSD for example the ability to grant access has become even more granular recently. I can't speak for Windows since I haven't touched it recently. I do think that Mac OSX is also relatively securable regardless of the software run. Obviously, windows, and *nixs of the world are never going to be as secure as OSes like plan9, but that is a security model issue. There is no reason for properly configured servers to be beholden to the software they run. --wyn

--wyn fullback  (Nov 18 2002 - 23:37)

100% agree. I didn't spell out completely about users/administrators and configuration issues. But that is where most problems lie - with semi-competent adminstrators.

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