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Palladium, 'Trusted PCs' in the News
NewsPosted by michael on Saturday September 07, @10:32PM
from the spin-control dept.
Reuters is carrying a fairly lengthy article on Palladium and 'Trusted Computing'. Worth reading - remember that what the Reuters/AP wires carry is all that most people will ever know about any particular issue.

 

 
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Palladium, 'Trusted PCs' in the News | Log in/Create an Account | Top | 274 comments | Search Discussion
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(1) | 2 (Slashdot Overload: CommentLimit 50)
I don't get it (Score:2, Funny)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 07, @10:36PM (#4214308)
How does replacing silicon with palladium [chemicalelements.com] transform open hardware into trusted hardware?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Considering this as news for the masses... (Score:3, Interesting)
by Nutrimentia on Saturday September 07, @10:39PM (#4214314)
(User #467408 Info | http://www.asylumnation.com/)
I'd say that its a pretty good article. I'm not an extremely savvy computer user, especially compared to the typical /. reader. I do know more than my parents and wife, undoubtedly, and think that the article is a fine synopsis of the two sides. It also seemed to give a bit more column space to the critics and talked more about control of your computer and restriction of fair use than the 'advantages' of virus control. It would have been nice to see a link to the Palladium FAQ and perhaps a comment from a critic pointing out that Microsoft's inherent software inadequacies are the root of the problem.

All in all a good article for the masses. Just needs more followup for those interested.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Quote (Score:1)
by archen on Saturday September 07, @10:41PM (#4214319)
(User #447353 Info)
"Microsoft wants the Chinese to pay for software,"

Makes you wonder if the Chinese didn't see all this brewing and decided to get a head start early on the Linux push.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Quote by Perdo (Score:3) Saturday September 07, @11:22PM
  • Bill's Quote (Score:4, Interesting)
    by einhverfr (einhverfrNO@SPAMhotmail.com) on Saturday September 07, @11:27PM (#4214456)
    (User #238914 Info | http://hermesweb.sourceforge.net/)
    In 1998 during an interview with Money Magazine, Bill Gates said, "Althought three million computers are sold in China each year, people don't pay for their software. They will soon though. They will get sort of adicted to it and we will have to find a way to collect in the next decade."

    Needless to say, this is extremely offensive to the Chinese for historical reasons (think Opium War). Lol, between Gates and "Our products just aren't engineered for security" Valentine, I wonder how Microsoft stays in business...
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Quote by acceleriter (Score:2) Saturday September 07, @11:36PM
  • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
more critical than I would have imagined (Score:2)
by MiTEG (spammersmustdie@miteg.hn.org) on Saturday September 07, @10:41PM (#4214325)
(User #234467 Info | http://miteg.hn.org/ | Last Journal: Sunday September 08, @08:04AM)
The article is much more critical than I would have imagined. I've always seen Reuters as being in the pockets of big corporations like Microsoft, but there seems to be more criticism than praise.

Maybe there's hope for Palladium being struck down after all?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Is AMD in on this? (Score:1)
by Green Light on Saturday September 07, @10:45PM (#4214336)
(User #32766 Info | http://www.milbaugh.com/ | Last Journal: Saturday March 02, @09:43AM)
The article says "Microsoft, Intel, and 200 other companies...". I sure hope that AMD is not going along with this troubled consortium. If Intel decides to build all of its processors in some fashion that lets the peecee makers control whatever we do with our machines, then we need other makers like AMD to build the alternative machines that play the way the owner of the machine wants it to.

Apple, as well, was not specifically mentioned as a player. With their track record, it is doubtful that they would be involved with these scoundrels.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
fairly lengthy? (Score:2, Insightful)
by ealar dlanvuli (froggie6@mchsi.com) on Saturday September 07, @10:45PM (#4214338)
(User #523604 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
Since when was a two page research paper fairly lengthy? Most English Comp 101 classes require 2+ pages on the first assignment...

I'm not sure if this is a sign of the sad state of popular media, or the sad state of all populus.
 
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Heh (Score:5, Insightful)
by GigsVT on Saturday September 07, @10:49PM (#4214350)
(User #208848 Info | http://www.electronicschat.org/ | Last Journal: Wednesday August 21, @09:01PM)
And a nice big ad for MS Visual Studio in the story too, how ironic.

As proof, Anderson points to a patent called "Digital Rights Management Operating System," for which Microsoft has rights

One of the first times a software patent might actually be a good thing. At least stifling competition and innovation in this area will give us a chance to focus our efforts on what is inevitably going to be a fundamentally flawed MS implementation of DRM.

Biddle and a TCPA spokesman deny the assertions, saying that no monitoring, reporting or censoring capabilities are designed into the systems, and people will be able to choose whether they want to use the security features, or not.

Talk about bullshit. DRM is useless if the user can turn it off.

To some, the TCPA plan is reminiscent of Intel's proposal in the mid-1990s to put a serial number on its Pentium chips. Public backlash caused Intel to abandon the plan.

Last I checked, the serial numbers are still there, and even though you can turn them off in the CMOS on some motherboards, software can turn them back on, so I hear.

By contrast, in trusted computing, special security chips and other hardware will work with software to verify the source of data and that it has not been changed, and to create safe zones within the computer for storing information.

Talk about a stupid solution to a simple problem. It doesn't require special hardware to protect the integrity of files, just proper software design. The earlier story on microBSD showed an implementation of software based integrity verification.

Technology companies must carefully balance individual rights and corporate interests, says Bruce Schneier, cryptography expert and chief technology officer at Counterpane Internet Security, a network monitoring firm.

Consumers used to vote with their dollars, no "balancing" was necessary. MS is betting on using monopoly power, and ignorant consumers to pull this one over on the public. Educated consumers are a necessary part of the free market, with technology becoming so complex, and specialization at an all time high, this may point to a larger problem, a complete breakdown of the free market, due to the lack of educated consumers.

"Microsoft wants the Chinese to pay for software," said Ross Anderson, head of computer security at the University of Cambridge in England and a renowned software expert.

Yeah, cause we all know those fucking chinks just leech off westerners. That is a pretty controversial thing to tell an AP reporter. To be fair, it was probably taken out of context.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Heh by nutznboltz (Score:2) Saturday September 07, @10:53PM
    • Re:Heh by Call it a n1ght (Score:1) Saturday September 07, @11:26PM
      • Re:Heh by cheezedawg (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @02:09AM
      • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Heh by Billly Gates (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @12:18AM
      • Re:Heh by danheskett (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @12:35AM
        • Re:Heh by Pig Hogger (Score:3) Sunday September 08, @01:02AM
          • Re:Heh by danheskett (Score:3) Sunday September 08, @01:13AM
            • Re:Heh by ealar dlanvuli (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @02:17AM
              • Re:Heh by danheskett (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @03:59AM
                • Re:Heh by NoMoreNicksLeft (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @09:04AM
                • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
            • Re:Heh by mpe (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @11:15AM
        • Re:Heh by Billly Gates (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @01:37AM
          • Re:Heh by cheezedawg (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @01:57AM
            • Re:Heh by Billly Gates (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @02:31AM
              • Re:Heh by cheezedawg (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @03:19AM
                • Re:Heh by Billly Gates (Score:1) Sunday September 08, @04:04AM
                  • Re:Heh by danheskett (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @04:13AM
                    • Re:Heh by Billly Gates (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @05:02AM
                      • Re:Heh by Billly Gates (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @07:11AM
                      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
                    • Re:Heh by will_die (Score:1) Sunday September 08, @08:13AM
              • Re:Heh by danheskett (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @04:33AM
                • Re:Heh by will_die (Score:1) Sunday September 08, @08:22AM
                • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
            • Re:Heh by GigsVT (Score:1) Sunday September 08, @07:43AM
            • Re:Heh by GauteL (Score:3) Sunday September 08, @08:16AM
          • Re:Heh by mpe (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @11:01AM
        • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Heh by Billly Gates (Score:2) Saturday September 07, @11:56PM
        • Re:Heh by Reziac (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @12:41AM
        • Re:Heh by Breakfast Pants (Score:1) Sunday September 08, @01:09AM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Consumers won't be allowed to vote with dollars by GroundBounce (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @03:59AM
      • Turn it off by Snover (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @05:51AM
      • Re:Heh by frank_slashdot (Score:1) Sunday September 08, @08:28AM
      • Consumers... by Sique (Score:1) Sunday September 08, @08:32AM
      • Re:Heh by GigsVT (Score:1) Saturday September 07, @10:56PM
      • Re:Heh by faaaz (Score:1) Sunday September 08, @06:03AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      Happily, a balanced article (Score:1)
      by Sitnaltax on Saturday September 07, @10:49PM (#4214351)
      (User #178828 Info)
      I must have been entirely too used to reading articles on CNN, Salon, etc. which look entirely too much like press releases for Microsoft, stating only how whatever new toy will Save Families And Protect The Children, and not how it will impede freedom.

      By contrast, this article mentions the negatives in, heck, pretty much every paragraph. It notes that Microsoft denies any freedom-limiting intent, but it also makes it very clear that a lot of people are really worried; the potential to limit freedom is certainly there.

      I suppose it's too much for me to expect for one silly Reuters article to change the world, but it certainly gives me some hope.
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Flame here (Score:1)
      by t_allardyce on Saturday September 07, @10:51PM (#4214356)
      (User #48447 Info | http://www.tf94.com/ | Last Journal: Monday June 17, @06:30PM)
      "If we're going to get content on the 'Net, somehow we're going to have to reward the people who put it on there,"

      What?? i cant even begin to start arguing with that statement at this time in the morning, theres just too much to type. ok (insert massive flame to the RIAA, MPAA etc. here, include mention of lame teeny-pop, bad movies, and the whole host of good things on the internet, like the osdn for one..)
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      interesting choice of words... (Score:5, Interesting)
      by shadowsong (shadowsong.hotmail@com) on Saturday September 07, @10:57PM (#4214376)
      (User #132451 Info)
      could be either the salvation of electronic commerce or the bane of consumers, who view the Internet as their digital information playground.


      *emphasis mine

      I think the implicit meaning here is that consumers think the internet is theirs. when in fact it is not.

      What will happen when corporate america convinces the world that it owns the internet?
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      sometimes stupid things are acceptable to millions (Score:2, Interesting)
      by sstory on Saturday September 07, @11:02PM (#4214389)
      (User #538486 Info)
      of people, so it's easy to imagine, in the future, the argument on the senate floor, "Since basically everybody uses Trusted Computers, why not just make untrustworthy computers illegal? they'only empower terrorists/drug dealers/kiddie porners/etc..."

      And to most people, it makes total sense then to ban those anonymous, crime-friendly pc's. I suppose the silver lining is, we could at least free ourselves of spammers. So it's a tough call ;-)

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      This ties in nicely (Score:1)
      by Perdo on Saturday September 07, @11:02PM (#4214390)
      (User #151843 Info | http://jobsearch.mon...http%3A%2F%2Fcompany)
      with "Our products just aren't engineered for security"..

      we need the help of hardware developers to produce a secure OS. Intel is good because they are helping. IBM is bad because they aren't helping. Linux is bad because they don't support secure hardware. Apple is bad because they are not locked into our platform. blah blah.

      I'll use enterprise level hardware running linux as a desktop before I ever run paladium commodity hardware.

      Or I will stick to my current desktop running linux untill Microsoft is brought to HEEL.
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      I am cynical (Score:1)
      by Bobulusman on Saturday September 07, @11:06PM (#4214400)
      (User #467474 Info)
      Maybe it's just me, but a news story (even an even-handed one like this) on Palladium and how it will try to secure PCs just a day or two after a story in which Microsoft leaders admit that their current systems are not 'designed for security' seems mighty suspicious....
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      I accidentally skipped a line and read (Score:1)
      by sam_handelman (skh2003NO@SPAMcolumbia.edu) on Saturday September 07, @11:09PM (#4214406)
      (User #519767 Info | http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/a2010.htm | Last Journal: Thursday August 15, @02:08PM)
      Platform Alliance (TCPA) would, if implemented, fundamentally shift
      the balance of power between individual and corporate ownership of
      Congress.


      And I thought to myself - is it really that bad?

      Of course, the missing line says it all:
      data -- a debate that is already being played out in U.S. courts and

      And that goes too far! Do what you want with my democratic instutions - HANDS OFF MY WAREZ!

      began in 1997 trying to address the problem of how to protect copyrighted content ... Later, he says, he realized the same technology could be used to protect consumer data from theft or tampering.

      Now that's a shocker!
      Obviously controlling the user was the first goal of their plan, and, uh, it stops viruses was the second. Up to this point, though, they (MS) has been pretty uniform in claiming that protecting the user was their first concern. I'm very surprised to hear them come out and admit this.

      I keep forgetting: expect the unexpectedly stupid.
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Fair and well balanced article. (Score:5, Insightful)
      by Chemical (nkessler2000@nospam.hotmail.com) on Saturday September 07, @11:13PM (#4214422)
      (User #49694 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
      remember that what the Reuters/AP wires carry is all that most people will ever know about any particular issue.

      Is that such a bad thing? You wouldn't see a story that well balanced on TV. TV news offers nothing except one sided stories. Then of course you have specialty news sites like Slashdot or The Register. Can you tell me with a straight face that The Register offers fairly balanced articles?

      Reuters, the Associated Press, and local newspaper staff writers are the last bastion of fair reporting. You have to admit that this article was very fairly written. It offered no opinions of it's own, and reported both sides of the argument without trying to say which one was "right". If Joe Sixpack were to read this, he would be free to make his own opinion based on the facts, not have one shoved down his throat. I think we should be thankful that fair reporting still exists in this corporation dominated society.

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      trust who? (Score:1)
      by DimitryP on Saturday September 07, @11:27PM (#4214457)
      (User #560878 Info)
      the question about "trusted computing" is exactly who are they trusting? it certainly isn't the end user, who basically is told to BOHICA (bend over, here it comes again)
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      • Re:trust who? by Salsaman (Score:1) Saturday September 07, @11:48PM
      • Re:trust who? by kasperd (Score:1) Sunday September 08, @07:12AM
      What a total and complete joke... (Score:1)
      by Stapler on Saturday September 07, @11:30PM (#4214466)
      (User #559692 Info | http://www.twistedevil.org/)
      Digital Rights Management. They've managed (har har) to take them all away. A few months ago, someone on some forum somewhere said all concerns over Palladium were/are just alarmist paranoia; Someone said the the plan was beneficial to consumers, etc. A couple years before that, people said the existence of anything like Palladium at all was alarmist theory and claptrap. The same thing was said about national I.D. cards and barcodes before that and Social Security numbers before that... What will be alarmist bullshit according to the "Sane and Logical" next year?
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Rewarding those who put content on the 'Net (Score:3, Insightful)
      by burgburgburg (<moc.liame> <ta> <60neksilps>) on Saturday September 07, @11:31PM (#4214469)
      (User #574866 Info)
      In the article, Dave Farber, Internet engineering pioneer (?), computer science professor at the University of Pennsylvania and independent consultant to the TCPA, says "If we're going to get content on the 'Net, somehow we're going to have to reward the people who put it on there".

      Ugh, Dave, the majority of people who put content on the 'Net are getting their reward: they're sharing their thougths, dreams, ideas, projects, photos, songs, etc. with the world. And the vast majority of them, virally enough, aren't charging for it. Go figure.

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Erm yeah, OK (Score:4, Insightful)
      by Salsaman (gabriel@DIE.SPAMM ... pixle.demon.co.uk) on Saturday September 07, @11:34PM (#4214477)
      (User #141471 Info)
      As proof, Anderson points to a patent called "Digital Rights Management Operating System," for which Microsoft has rights. However, Microsoft's Biddle says the patent title is "unfortunate" and downplays its significance to Palladium.

      Of course, Palladium has absolutely nothing to do with DRM. Microsoft just patented it by accident. And if DRM happens to be built in to your OS, well it's just 'unfortunate'.

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Seth Schoen's Palladium Summary (Score:5, Informative)
      by pberry (pberry@@@mac...com) on Saturday September 07, @11:45PM (#4214498)
      (User #2549 Info | http://www.patandkat.com/pat/weblog/?slashdot)
      When Microsoft came to talk to us [eff.org] about Palladium, Seth took some notes and did this write up [loyalty.org].
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      White box computers? (Score:3, Funny)
      by Saint Mitchell on Saturday September 07, @11:48PM (#4214507)
      (User #144618 Info)
      So, what about the screwdriver-shack white box PCs? Is Intel going to make CPUs only for the new "trusted" computers? If so then will we have only HP and crew to make our hardware? Please tell me VIA isn't on the list. If they are not, then all is ok, we'll still have the DIY computers. I'd take a slow CPU Cyrix/Via made over one that sends my keystrokes to the feds "just in case". And even worse, what if some cool-arse-must-have-new-game comes out that only runs on this new crap from MS. May the flees of a thousand camels come to nest in the genitalia of the people responsible for that mess.

      Then again, I’m known for my xfiles style paranoia.
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      it's pointless (Score:2)
      by g4dget on Saturday September 07, @11:57PM (#4214521)
      (User #579145 Info)
      Trying to impose digital rights management through a consortium is bound to fail. Even if Intel, Dell, Compaq, IBM, Microsoft, and Apple collude fully to control digital content, there are thousands of chips out there thay any small and innovative company can turn into a computing platform, using Linux or BSD as the OS. The only thing Microsoft achieves by crippling their OS is to give open source a leg up.

      The only serious threat is legislation or legal precedent: if running your favorite OS on an embedded chip becomes defined as "circumvention" under the DMCA, then there is real trouble. But then we'd be heading for the technological dark ages anyway: a DRM world simply cannot support a rapid pace of technological innovation.

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      A Bit Bland... (Score:2)
      by BlackGriffen on Sunday September 08, @12:03AM (#4214534)
      (User #521856 Info)
      It's a bit bland, but that's about all you can expect form mainstream. I just loved this paragraph, though:

      "While Palladium is still a long way off, an uproar has arisen over how technologies might be used to curtail consumer "fair use" rights to make personal copies of movies and music and to more tightly control software use."

      Why on earth did they put the term "fair use" in quotes? It sounds almost like they're trying to discredit the notion.

      Other than this one glaring exception, not a bad piece. Not a good piece, but not bad either.

      BlackGriffen
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Does Taiwan Count as Chinese? (Score:5, Interesting)
      by Master of Transhuman on Sunday September 08, @12:04AM (#4214538)
      (User #597628 Info)
      Excuse me, but this "Chinese" that Bill wants to pay for his stuff, does that include the Taiwanese who manufacture half the hardware used to run his stuff?

      And what happens when America locks down its computers? Does Taiwan sit back and say, "Yeah, okay" - or do they start building boxes without the Palladium hardware and maybe even their own CPUs and start selling them worldwide (and smuggling them into America will be the next big "Drug War" issue!) and take over the computer industry from Intel? While Linux is taking over the software market from Windows by ignoring the issue?

      Go ahead, Bill! Feel free! Don't let the door hit your butt on the way to the poor house!

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      MS will lose on this one. (Score:2, Insightful)
      by jericho4.0 on Sunday September 08, @12:06AM (#4214543)
      (User #565125 Info)
      IMHO, Microsoft is going to lose with Palladium big time. Consumers, even non-tech savy consumers, don't like crippled products. As soon as Joe User installs a new version of Media Player or what have you, and finds out he can't play his mp3 collection, that software is outta there. Bells and whistles notwithstanding.
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Great... my future looks like Hiro Protagonist now (Score:2)
      by ebbomega on Sunday September 08, @12:18AM (#4214575)
      (User #410207 Info | http://silliness.8m.com/)
      "If we're going to get content on the 'Net, somehow we're going to have to reward the people who put it on there"

      Interesting, I thought that the CIC handled that...
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      So what happens... (Score:1)
      by dissonant7 on Sunday September 08, @12:25AM (#4214596)
      (User #572834 Info)
      ...if you were to create an virtual machine\emulator of this OS\Media Player\Abomination that ignored or altered the functioning of the DRM hardware\software suite?(Other than a blatant violation of the DMCA, that is...) There is no system that can't be cracked, especially where MS is concerned. Suits will never out-geek the geeks.
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      response to a quote from the Palladium FAQ (Score:4, Interesting)
      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 08, @12:47AM (#4214644)
      If entertainment is the killer application, and DRM is going to be the critical enabling technology, then the PC has to do DRM or risk being displaced in the home market.

      You know what I say? LET IT. Let's face the facts:

      PC sales have leveled off. The market is at saturation. There is no "killer app" that will make anyone who does not presently own a PC go out and get one. If they don't own a PC by now, they DON'T want one and nothing will change that. The majority of PC sales are now replacements for existing obsolete/older machines and machines for new population members. It's the same situation the car manufacturers face, and they're used to it. The IT companies are just freaked because it's no longer a growth market and they're having to adjust.

      Interactive TV, network appliances, video phones and flying cars. All ideas that sound good and futuristc, all without mainstream acceptance. It is quite possible "The PC as an entertainment appliance" is just as doomed to becoming a niche market as any other anticipated "killer app" that awaits over the horizon.

      Tivos aren't exactly flying off the shelves. Yes the Tivo is a neat geek toy. The public at large doesn't care. They already own a VCR.

      I don't want to wait for a movie to download that I can only watch on one PC. I want the DVD that I can play in my DVD player, my friend's DVD player or bring it with me and watch it on the TV in my boat.

      I don't want to wait for an entire album to download that I can only listen to on one PC. Just like DVDs, I want the actual disc.

      There is a place I can already get what I want, and it's nearby where I shop for food and they also sell clothes - it's very convienent, it's called the local department store. If the digital intellectual property the media companies are so interested in protecting was only less expensive, they wouldn't have to worry about protecting it. I'd much rather buy it.

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      As a Canadian I am sorry! (Score:1)
      by RebelTycoon on Sunday September 08, @12:51AM (#4214650)
      (User #584591 Info)
      Hopefully this stupid survey conducted by Ipsos-Reid [ipsos-reid.com] will not cast doubt on the importance I see of a strong and supportive partnership with our brothers to the south.

      Quoting, Seven in ten (69%) Canadians think that the United States, because of its policies and actions in the Middle East and other parts of the world, bear some of the responsibility for the terrorist attacks on them, while 15% indicate that they believe that the U.S. bears all of the responsibility.

      The question is overly broad and thus meaningless, additionally the timing is both inconsidered and just a cheap way of creating news by bashing Americans. Supporting a soverign nation (Israel) in its struggle for acceptance and a right to exist, and deploying military forces in Saudi Arabia when asked, does not constitute a justification for the cowardly act of September 11th.

      For more information, here is an article [globeandmail.com], but more importantly, I think we should all Ipsos-Reid what we think of their "make news bullshit by bashing Americans" at ...

      John Wright [mailto]
      Senior Vice-President
      Ipsos-Reid Public Affairs
      (416) 324-2900

      To my American brothers, I am sorry for this type of survey, see to it that Ipsos-Reid doesn't do it again... Take the time, even if it is just a two-word email!

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Shooting themselves in the foot (Score:4, Insightful)
      by Powercntrl on Sunday September 08, @12:53AM (#4214655)
      (User #458442 Info)
      How many people are actively boycotting the MPAA/RIAA because of this shit?

      Taken a step further, how many people actually feel good starting up the ol' P2P client and ripping the media companies a new one?

      I'm not advocating piracy, what I'm merely pointing out is that maybe the increase in piracy is due to the fact that all this digital rights stuff is making people feel a little bit better about not paying for music and movies. Instead of decreasing piracy, all they (the media companies) might really cause is MORE rampant piracy and the rise of prices of "open" hardware on eBay.
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      New World Order? (Score:2)
      by uncoveror on Sunday September 08, @12:54AM (#4214656)
      (User #570620 Info | http://www.uncoveror.com/)
      Before reading this article, I knew little about Palladium. Since reading this article, I know little about Palladium. It was a whole lot of nothing. Like .Net, I still don't know what Palladium is, and suspect that I won't want any part of it when I do. It is probably part of the dark conspiracy to spy on us, and bring about the New World Order with things like webcams, [uncoveror.com] bugged ceiling fans, [uncoveror.com] the V-chip, [uncoveror.com] and mind control software. [uncoveror.com]
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      I like Apple's take on DRM (so far) (Score:1)
      by mtec on Sunday September 08, @12:54AM (#4214659)
      (User #572168 Info)
      You open the iPod box and the first words you see are: " Don't Steal Music "
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      RICO (Score:2)
      by buss_error (buss_error@@@yahoo...com) on Sunday September 08, @12:57AM (#4214671)
      (User #142273 Info | http://www.apnic.net/ | Last Journal: Thursday June 13, @12:02PM)
      I don't doubt that the DRM is going to cause a crime of some sort. Making it impossible to run software, play your own stuff, or what ever.

      Now the question is if RICO statutes could be applied. Then every one involved with the damn thing could lose big bucks. Really big bucks.

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Palladium Hard Drive Sighted on eBay (Score:2, Funny)
      by Powercntrl on Sunday September 08, @01:17AM (#4214733)
      (User #458442 Info)
      It's already begun! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =2051153825 [ebay.com]

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Must...tear this...apart...aarrgh (Score:4, Insightful)
      by unsinged int on Sunday September 08, @01:30AM (#4214754)
      (User #561600 Info)
      "If we're going to get content on the 'Net, somehow we're going to have to reward the people who put it on there," said Dave Farber

      Yeah, this is such a problem. I mean, right now, the Internet contains more content than me or even a large group of people could possibly hope to consume in a lifetime. And don't even start to say that most of the content now is garbage. That's (one) very much a matter of personal taste and (two) ignoring the fact that an essentially infinite amount of good information plus an essentially infinite amount of garbage still supplies you with plenty of good content...and search engines help us tune out the garbage.

      media companies complained they wouldn't release high-quality versions of their published content to personal computers because of piracy concerns

      Books and movies are available from libraries. I'm sure they hate that too. But I think the reason they complain about the Internet so much is it's an unbelievably large library without even so much as a librarian to regulate the usage of anything. Corporations want to start commercializing the information content of the Internet, instead of settling for selling physical products online. They are blinded by the opinion that if there is a way they can make money, then they have a right to make money that way. Thus they feel we must start to regulate all the information on the Internet. Bastards.

      "I like to call this controlled computing rather than trusted computing," said Chris Hoofnagle

      I like to call this crippled computing rather than controlled computing.

      What may be perceived as minor intrusions in a Western corporate setting might have Big Brother consequences for computer users in countries with more controlled environments like China and Saudi Arabia.

      Huh? WTF does this mean? That we can trust the Western corporations not to abuse power? That Western citizens are apathetic to the notion of a Big Brother? Any way that I read this it makes no sense.

      "[DRM is] not something that really is part and parcel of what Palladium is," Biddle says, adding that it is related to optional add-on features that customers could elect to use.

      This is tantamount to saying here is our new computer product, which you can use with this set of optional handcuffs. Go ahead, try them on, you'll like them. What? You don't want to use them? Hmm. Okay guys, bring in the service pack! Now it's mandatory.

      "Security is more social than technical," Schneier said. "There are a lot of good technical controls in Palladium, but it's unclear whether they'll be used to protect personal privacy or limit personal freedom.

      Finally someone with a clue. I might add that convincing the general public that the Internet lacks content, that they need Palladium, that they should use the "optional" features -- is all social engineering. There is no technical justification for any of it, but since the gap between someone who understands the true potential of a computer and someone who just uses email is so huge, it may not be that difficult for them to convince Joe User that his computer should be "secured" for his own protection. If people are ignorant of what they're losing, they won't cry foul when they lose it.

      *Sigh* Back to searching for the scarce crumbs of useful content on the Internet...
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
        Re:Must...tear this...apart...aarrgh (Score:4, Interesting)
        by gilroy on Sunday September 08, @02:52AM (#4214943)
        (User #155262 Info | http://www.ubidubium.net/ | Last Journal: Saturday August 24, @12:47AM)
        Blockquoth the poster:

        Books and movies are available from libraries. I'm sure they hate that too.

        Oh, they do, they do. Don't think the Content Cartel isn't aiming for the effective elimination of public libraries through the imposition of increasingly restrictive access control mechanisms. And don't think that dead-tree publishers are any more moral or public-spirited than bit-pushers. To quote Ralph Oman [washingtonpost.com], former US Registrar of Copyright, under whose regime the expansion of intellectual "property" rights occured,

        A long list of special pleaders now gets free use of copyrighted works, including small businesses, veterans' groups, bars, scholars, restaurants, fraternal groups, marching bands, Boy Scout troops, nursing homes, libraries, radio broadcasters and home tapers. [emphasis added]

        As we can see, public libraries are no more than thieving "special pleaders" who scavenge off the public domain without ever returning anything to society. Oh, wait, that's more a description of Disney, but oh, well... The Registrar of Copyright himself apparently dismissses public libraries. You don't think the Content Cartel drools over the prospect?
        [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      • Re:Must...tear this...apart...aarrgh by snarf_snarf (Score:1) Sunday September 08, @03:34AM
      Reuters/AP never reach most people (Score:2)
      by guttentag on Sunday September 08, @01:52AM (#4214812)
      (User #313541 Info | Last Journal: Monday August 26, @04:56PM)
      ...remember that what the Reuters/AP wires carry is all that most people will ever know about any particular issue
      No. What the wires carry is all the people who read newspapers or other mediums that carry the unadulterated Reuters/AP stories will ever know about a particular issue.

      Most people don't like to read serious newspapers... they don't have enough pie charts and they use big, headache-inducing words like "president" and "Gorbachev." So a lot of people read USA Today or tabloids which use catchy, easy-to-swallow words like "prez" and "Gorby." Those papers dumb the news down and cut out critical information their readers don't want to think about anyway.

      A far larger portion of the population gets its news from television, which is not news at all. It's entertainment, soundbites, hype, ads and then one to four sentences about the news. Even the most well-intentioned copy writer cannot encapsulate "Trusted Computing" fairly in four spoken sentences, so everyone who watches the broadcast will be very poorly informed.

      Then there's the largest group: the people whose news consists of the watered-down, telephone-game-tainted rumors they hear from the people they know. They don't watch/read the news because they don't want to.

      Reuters is often trash compared to the AP or a good newspaper reporter's story, but it's far better than what most people will hear about this issue.

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      MS can win this (Score:1)
      by thogard on Sunday September 08, @01:56AM (#4214823)
      (User #43403 Info | http://web.abnormal.com/)
      What if MS starts selling PC's at a price that makes them the cheapst bang for the buck but they only run their OS's and there is a small monthy fee but that includes net access and the hardware and after X years, they agree to send you a new box. Work just purchased a new PC to test compatability and the most expensive single componet was a MS license. A MS OS and Office would have cost more than the computer and thats what 99% of the businesses think they need.

      What will happen to your local scredriver shop if MS decides to sell PC's at $200 plus $39/mo through the local walmart and they just happen to have the newest Intel offering which no one else seems to have in stock? The Xbox is the 2nd MS offering that fits in the model (web Tv was the 1st).
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Waste of a college education? (Score:1)
      by DavesError on Sunday September 08, @02:04AM (#4214842)
      (User #550952 Info)
      So, basically I've wasted my college education, because greedy bastards are going to screw up everything we know and love about the internet and our techological ways of life...
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      DO YOUR PART! (Score:5, Insightful)
      by Eric_Cartman_South_P on Sunday September 08, @02:04AM (#4214843)
      (User #594330 Info)
      Get off the computer and TALK to your little brother or sitster. Talk to your parents. Talk to your neighbors. Talk to the idiot browsing magazines in Borders while you sip your chai. Let everyone know that Microsoft is about restricting rights, and there is no need to upgrade. Let people know that office 98 is FINE. They will like hearing that from a "geek". If you can keep one person in doubt when MS starts hitting the cover of Time magazine with their Palladium propoganda when it comes out (2005?) you've done your part.

      I'm serious, talk to your less-geeky friends and family. This is not a rant. Spread the word in plain english, then the common folk know they don't need to upgrade to an operating system that will simply restrict what they do.

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Some of my fav quotes... (Score:1)
      by yoshi_mon on Sunday September 08, @02:25AM (#4214893)
      (User #172895 Info)
      Maintaining that these systems are needed to impede hackers, proponents say they could help restore law and order in a world where digital piracy is rampant.

      The classic piracy FUD. Last time I looked, all the big media groups were still making money. But, as we all know, unlike brick and mortar retailers, they can't just accept that there is a nominal loss due to shoplifting and or employee theft. Nah, they need to have it all or society as we know it will collapse.

      "If we're going to get content on the 'Net, somehow we're going to have to reward the people who put it on there," said Dave Farber, an Internet engineering pioneer and computer science professor at the University of Pennsylvania who is an independent consultant to the TCPA.

      Before I even start to rant about the content that is already on the internet, who is this Dave Farber guy that is some sort of “Internet engineering pioneer?” I mean I thought Al Gore invented the internet anyway, did this guy help?

      "Security is more social than technical," Schneier said. "There are a lot of good technical controls in Palladium, but it's unclear whether they'll be used to protect personal privacy or limit personal freedom.

      Translated from corporate speak: The control mechanisms we propose will be very profitable if we can get the masses to swallow them. However, it is as yet unclear if they will accept a pill as big as this one.
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Right (Score:2)
      by aztektum on Sunday September 08, @02:30AM (#4214906)
      (User #170569 Info)
      We all know it's Al Gore's Internet
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      unless a law, wont work (Score:1)
      by ramzak2k on Sunday September 08, @02:58AM (#4214953)
      (User #596734 Info)
      Microsoft has had a tradition at convincing its customers into buying its products with the ease of use as their selling point.Building a GUI application with Visual Studio or .NET version has been easier than building one in java using say IBM's Visual Age for java. Every release of its OS/Office touted as a tool for a better "user experience". They have been quite successful at using the initial fear of users to migrate to a different platform against open source solutions. Palladium, for once, cannot be sold under a "ease of use" label with all the restrictions that will be added. When many a online business models based on paid service having failed primarily because of user reluctance in not wanting to pay for anything once available for free, how easy is it going to be for microsoft to sell its OS that would almost eliminate free content ?
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      The Digital Rights Divide.... (Score:2)
      by 3seas on Sunday September 08, @03:00AM (#4214959)
      (User #184403 Info | http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/ | Last Journal: Friday January 18, @02:44PM)

      With all thios effort to constrain creativity and innovation, there needs to be effort and work being done to create laws (plenty of licenses are already available) that protect our right to be creative and innovative with what is the most versatile tool we have yet created, the computer.

      The constraints being proposed in DRM and such are a contridiction of such creativity and innovation freedom, not to mention the taking away of far use. But if these constraints are chosen to be applied by such a collective, then as product producers they have every right.

      HOWEVER, They DO NOT Have the Right to Suppress Competition for Comsumer Choice. It is wrong to try and shut out open systems which contribute to creativity and innovation, not to mention far use.

      I should have a choice, not be forced to buy one or the other but have a choice as to whether I am buying a genuine computer or some constrained to the level of dedicated applicance, device.

      These are two different items!!! And it should be made clear, made very clear.

      On one hand you have appliances and that which will only run on such appliances. On the other hand, the choice of versatility open for being creative and innovative with, limited only by not being able to access products designed specifically for the constrained appliances.

      TWO different general Lines of Products.
      One Constrained, the other NOT.

      Those pursuing constraints need the hell to stop infringing upon genuine computers system which were here before they came up with a lessor systems. They need to make it clear to the buying public that they are not taking away consumer choice, but making a different product.

      The Consumer has a right to have choice!!

      Why has this difference not been identified and made clear to the general public?

      It seems very clear to me that there is a great deal of consumer deception going on here.

         
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      That doesn't sound right (Score:1)
      by speedfreak_5 (speedfreak2K2@softhome.net) on Sunday September 08, @03:01AM (#4214960)
      (User #546044 Info | http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Friday April 05, @08:47PM)
      --"If we're going to get content on the 'Net, somehow we're going to have to reward the people who put it on there," said Dave Farber, an Internet engineering pioneer and computer science professor at the University of Pennsylvania who is an independent consultant to the TCPA.--

      Isn't that what money is for?
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Shrug (Score:2, Interesting)
      by buffer-overflowed on Sunday September 08, @03:22AM (#4214985)
      (User #588867 Info | http://www.netshade.org/)
      I don't see what the big deal with palladium is. Maybe I haven't become as scared[dual meaning, rule] as your typical /. reader over the years, but I personally have the following view: If MS seeks to control every aspect of the desktop, the masses will rebel. Unless, of course they do it in such a way that a great majority are happy with it. In which case it comes down to best tool for the job. If that's MS, use MS, if that's linux, use linux. If more people just thought that way, instead of MS is evil, Linux is great, or MS is good, Linux is too hard to use... etc. etc. then I think we could put all these wars to rest. It all comes down to that... best tool for the job.

      Then again, *nix is an OS by developers, for developers, so I'm just a weee bit biased towards those variants...
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      • Re:Shrug by Powercntrl (Score:1) Sunday September 08, @06:15AM
      • Re:Shrug by JaredOfEuropa (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @08:28AM
      Another powergrab: Executive power. (Score:1)
      by Ronin SpoilSpot on Sunday September 08, @04:48AM (#4215081)
      (User #86591 Info)
      Most western democracies have the governing power divided into three: the legislative power, the judicial power, and the executive power. This division is considered a good thing, since it prevents any part from gaining unconditional power, and we know that power corrupts.

      Some people just can't stop trying to grap power.

      Take the DMCA's anti-circumvention rules. The only purpose of these rules are to prevent people from breaking the copyright law. That is, it is the legislative power's attempt to act as executive power. Not surprisingly, the DMCA can be misused in innumerable ways.

      Now consider Hardware Rights Control. Again it is an attempt by someone, this time entirely outside of the government, to grab executive power. The reason for using hardware is to prevent people from breaking the copyright law. Any other feature of DRM can be programmed in software as long as people are cooperative, so hardware is only needed *against* the users who are uncooperative (e.g., those who want to make use of their fair use rights). I will be surprised if there are not innumerable abuses of hardware DRM.

      The unholy marriage of DMCA and DRM should remove the need for hardware DRM. After all, is the purpose of the DMCA not to prevent people from circumventing protections, so the digital rights are safe, right? But the legislative power of DMCA is not enough for the people who want to protect "content" from the users. They want another layer of protection to make it even harder to break the law.

      When hardware DRM also fails, what will their next step be? My guess is surveilance of all media-capable devices (mandatory ofcourse).

      Does that sound far fetched? they already did it! [com.com] /RS
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Palladium (Score:2)
      by danheskett (dan@nOspaM.heskettnet.com) on Sunday September 08, @05:03AM (#4215098)
      (User #178529 Info | http://www.danheskett.com/)
      Palladium is an implementation of TCPA - a "trusted computer".

      All that means is that the system as a whole - which requires hardware and software - has the ability to run applications in a way which ties a piece of data to a piece of code.

      This done using public/private key crypto methods.

      That's it. A side effect is that a media company could create data that is trusted - aka signed using PKI - so that only correspondigly signed code can access it.

      This of course is problematic because then that code would determine what rights to bestow the user. And no other software could touch that data unless the code was properly signed - aka authorized by the publisher of the data.

      This makes a lot of people who 1) exercise their fair use rights regurarly as well as 2) illegally copy digital media that they do not own very nervous.

      For now media is distributed in formats that are untrusted - aka CDA/DVD, etc. The problem becomes apparent when that changes and media is shipped "protected". Then piracy and fair use could be fairly effectively supressed in a large sense.

      I think the answer then is simply to force any company that sells digital media to actively have to accomodate fair use rights. CDs already do that. DVDs do not. New digital media must fully accomodate fair use. That means lending, backup copies, etc etc. Leave it up to the companies to figure it out.

      That would passify most of the people angry about Palladium/TCPA/DRM. Except for the people who use this as a front for a much larger issue.

      There is a significant number of people who are simply against IP in all senses. Thats fine if they feel that way. But lets have that debate in full and in open terms.
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      • Re:Palladium by GigsVT (Score:1) Sunday September 08, @08:02AM
        • Re:Palladium by paulbd (Score:2) Sunday September 08, @08:45AM
      What content, exactly? (Score:2)
      by tuxedo-steve on Sunday September 08, @05:08AM (#4215107)
      (User #33545 Info)
      From the article:
      ... after media companies complained they wouldn't release high-quality versions of their published content to personal computers because of piracy concerns.
      Exactly what "high-quality content" are they talking about here? Last I checked, I could play (and rip) DVD movies and CD music on my personal computer just fine. What high-quality content is being withheld from the computer world, hmm Mr. Biddle?
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      The theft of our freedoms (Score:1)
      by frank_slashdot on Sunday September 08, @08:52AM (#4215373)
      (User #606948 Info)

      The worst of all is that people will be forced to use Palladium or TCPA machines, when laws like CBDTPA (the former SSSCA) will be passed.

      Thus, sooner or later, the right to share will be outlawed, and people will no longer be able to "turn DRM off".

      When no TCPA-free or Palladium-free hardware will be available and the ISPs will only allow TCPA machines to be connected to the Internet, there will be no alternative.

      The worst of all, most of the people are totally unaware that many of their freedoms are about to be stolen.

      For an introduction see:

      http://action.eff.org/tinseltown/ [eff.org]

      http://www.eff.org/IP/SSSCA_CBDTPA/ [eff.org]

      TCPA / Palladium Frequently Asked Questions

      http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/tcpa-faq.html [cam.ac.uk]

      "The Right to Read" by Richard M. Stallman.

      http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html [fsf.org]

      (The important thing about this story is that it was written before the DMCA was even proposed!)

      "What's Wrong With Copy Protection" by John Gilmore.

      http://cryptome.org/jg-wwwcp.htm [cryptome.org]


      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Call it 'restricted', not 'trusted' (Score:2)
      by hqm on Sunday September 08, @09:56AM (#4215540)
      (User #49964 Info)
      Everyone needs to start referring to Palladium
      as "restricted" computing, rather than "secure" or "trusted". It is more accurate, and will
      better serve to explain to people in a word what they are getting railroaded into accepting.

      People need to understand the power of words in this battle. This is a battlefield of ideas, and we are losing the battle, because of the massive PR machine of Microsoft and Hollywood.

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • 17 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • (1) | 2 (Slashdot Overload: CommentLimit 50)
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