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  Report from the first Oregon open source hearing  
Tuesday April 08, 2003 - [ 04:24 PM GMT ]   Print this Article
Topic - Government

- By Doug Dingus -
3 April 2003 - It was an early morning, uneventful drive to the State Capitol building in Salem, Oregon. Upon arrival, I found the staff pleasant and efficient. All I had to say to the woman at the information desk was "Open Source." Her reply was swift and on target: "Down the hall, turn right, continue past the green carpet. It's on the left."

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It was hard to miss the room; several small groups were gathered outside engaged in quiet discussion and planning. After signing in to potentially speak and submit written testimony, I took a moment to exchange greetings with Ken Barber, Lead author of HB 2892, Cooper Stevenson and Sally from bill sponsor Rep. Barnhart's office (D-Central Lane and Linn Counties), along with a few others. Everyone was excited to begin the proceedings.

I took a seat to the right of middle, a couple of rows behind Ken and the others. A member of the press was to my right. Others let me know he was with the Oregonian, but we did not have a chance to meet. Several Microsoft lobbyists were present, but remained silent and watchful in the back throughout the proceedings. This bill could have a dramatic impact on their future. There were many other private citizens there as well looking on with interest, hoping for their chance to speak. All in all, there were about 35-40 people in the room representing both sides.

Committee Chair Rep. Jerry Krummel (R-Wilsonville) began the proceedings with a quick outline of the rules of engagement for this particular session. Each side was to get 40 short minutes for combined spoken testimony. Those not allowed to speak were free to submit written testimony after the proceedings. Looking around the room, I realized that not everyone was going to get a chance to voice their views. I was glad I had spent the time to prepare written testimony.

The sponsors of the bill had their say first. Ken led the testimony with his background and motivation for the bill. He was followed by many others, including members of the LTSP project and representatives from small school districts who said they could not be doing the things they are without the savings Open Source software makes available to them. Others provided a range of thoughtful and well-presented views. Some highlights from their combined testimony were:

  • Open Source costs less
  • The State needs to encourage Open Standards to avoid Lock in.
  • HB 2892 is not a discriminatory bill
  • The current market is not a free one
  • Open Source is more Secure
  • Open Source is less susceptible to virus damage
  • It is easy to use
  • Why spend money on software the State can get for free?
  • Open Source means Open Standards
  • Open Source will save the State of Oregon a lot of money
The technical nature of the subject made things difficult at times. We clearly need to continue to work very hard on this as we move forward. All of the committee members appeared engaged and interested in the proceedings. Their questions were relevant, as were the answers. However, I am not sure the committee was able to receive all the answers they needed because of the technical issues.

Rep. John Mabrey (R-The Dalles) wanted to know what this Open Source was all about. He compared it to cereal -- a product that is purchased. Why make the State always consider one vendor over another as a matter of law? He also wanted to know why people would produce Open Source when it was to be given away. Where does the value come from?

Rep Avakian (D-Beaverton) asked about virus protection. How is it that Open Source software is less susceptible to virus damage compared to proprietary software?

Other questions posed by the committee were along similar lines.

The 40 minutes went by quickly. It was time to hear from the opposition.

Representatives from the Business Software Alliance (BSA), Computing Technology Industry Association and the American Electronics Association (AeA) provided the lion's share of the testimony. Their presentation was fast and well-prepared. They were followed by Deborah Bryant from the Oregon Department of Administrative Services (DAS) and a technology consultant. Some of the highlights from their combined testimony were:

  • Support value for money proposition as long as it remains neutral ( no OSS)
  • Mention of the Initiative for Software Choice
  • Testimony related to number of member companies
  • HB 2892 is a discriminatory bill toward Proprietary software
  • Open Source does not mean Open Standards (They claimed there is Open Source that does not make use of Open Standards)
  • The State is free to purchase Open Source software now, why change?
  • Open Source has heavy service and support costs that offset the low initial cost
  • The current market is a free market, it should stay that way
  • Cost justification will be too expensive to be practical
The committee did not ask many questions of the opposition. Rep. Kelly Wirth (D-Corvallis) asked the AeA about the nature of member support. She asked if they had conducted polls or if they could give an indication as to the degree of their member companies support. The AeA representative did not provide a definitive answer on either question.

As their time came to an end, it was clear that very little common ground existed in this first draft of HB 2892.

Committee Chair Krummel then called the proceedings to an end. He announced that a working group shall consist of Deborah Bryant, key Open Source proponents, and the trade group representatives. The group must meet and try to agree on amendments by 15, April 2003 before the bill can move forward. This is not a lot of time.

All in all, it was an interesting session. Both sides made strong showings. The committee clearly understood the level of interest in the bill and participated with interest while working hard to understand the technical issues involved.

Though I did not get a chance to speak during the proceedings, I learned a great deal and met with sincere people who are working hard to do what they believe will benefit the State of Oregon. Although I have been an Open Source advocate for a number of years, this was my first direct involvement with a project of this kind. Seeing the effort put forth by both sides in the proceedings has shown me that change takes work and dedication and some level of risk if it is going to happen.

This is an exciting time for Open Source in Oregon. I encourage you to take a moment this week to send a letter, e-mail, or place a phone call to your representative. Your views count more now than ever.

- Doug Dingus
doug@opengeek.org

Related Information

For

HB 2892

The Linux Terminal Server Project

Initiative for Sincere Choice

Free Software foundation Open Source Initiative

About Open Standards

Against

American Electronics Association

Business Software Alliance

Computing Technology Industry Association

Initiative for Software choice

----------

 

( Post a new comment )

Battle Bots      
by Anonymous Reader on 2003.04.08 12:46 (
#48534)


In this corner, we have money and greed who only wants the State to spend more of it on them. In the other corner we have a tax savings idea.

Let the battle begin.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

open source and security      
by biera13 on 2003.04.08 13:21 (
#48541)
User #174133 Info


"# Open Source is more Secure" can people stop saying that ? while it's mostly true, how to measure that is not easy, and the arguments can go on all day long.

what *IS* true is that OSS has a better history of security due to it being open, and that the model for maintaining security is better.

it's not a small point. saying something is "more secure" is not correct or valuable when talking about lawmaking decisions.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Testimony availible online      
by Anonymous Reader on 2003.04.08 15:13 (
#48556)


The Oregon State Legislature provides streams of almost all of the committee hearings at http://www.leg.state.or.us/
You can listen to the testimony over the bill in its entirety at:
http://www.leg.state.or.us/listn/archive/archive.2 003s/HGG-200304030813.ram
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Watering a golf course with bottled water      
by Anonymous Reader on 2003.04.08 18:33 (
#48577)


If software was water,

then proprietary software would be the high priced foo foo labled bottled water.

Free software would be tap water.

Both are wet.
Both are clean and you can drink them.
Both provide their own industry.

We pay too much taxes as it is.
I don't want to pay for watering a golf course with bottled water.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Commerical need to wake up      
by Anonymous Reader on 2003.04.08 19:02 (
#48578)


Support value for money proposition as long as it remains neutral ( no OSS)
Yep it may be discriminatory but why will be answered next.

The true is that Open Source means that a programer can get the standard of the files used by the program perfectly. Now lets take Openoffice and closed source word. There are stuffup between word version a programer can not write a converter program to fix the problems if microsoft don't do it well. Yet if the same thing happened in Openoffice you could get the old version look at the diffs and make a converter to the the problem. Now this is extreamly unlikely that it would happen but if it did you would stand a change. Basicly all Open Source software is open standards even if the standard is only particlar it that piece of software.

The reason of the change is that software in open source has got good enough.

And the heavy service and support costs that is cause by a lack of trained staff of cource with time this will drop. Heck the cost of microsoft support is held low by a great deal of trained staff. Even so many study have shown the high buy in price of commerical software is too high even adding it the higher service price.

The current market is a free market, it should stay that way. Hmm free market people buy in get stuck with a product if they want to change have to redo a pile of work then are force to upgrade to avoid doing a pile of work. This is not free it a trap. If all software worked on open file standards it would be a free market it would surival of the fitest. Not surival of the bigest.

Cost justification will be too expensive to be practical. Cost now this is really calling the pot call the kettle black. These Cost of change would be the same no matter what system they completely change over to another company. But this way they get to put a load of junk in the hope the accounts will listen to them. A least open source you have access to the file standed so if you change you can convert.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Brown Man's Burden      
by Anonymous Reader on 2003.04.08 20:04 (
#48584)


One of the misconceptions that have been adopted time and time again is comparing OpenSource/Free Software to finite amount commodities. It is not like water. It is not like cereal. It is more like the concept of making fire. Or techniques for building a house. Or the idea of domesticating animals instead of hunting them down and gathering them. It is the spirit of human cooperation that has been with us through the centuries and is now, more than ever, slowly being held for ransom.

I am an OpenSource/Free Software developer. When the time comes when asked what do these developer get out of giving away stuff for free, please don't make up some cock-a-mamie answer that will appeal to the present man's greed. I and a lot of us do it for the simple joy of doing it and seeing other people benefit and become happy from it.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Smart Legislation would...      
by Anonymous Reader on 2003.04.09 2:13 (
#48598)


Smart legislation would avoid all the non-quantifiables like "more secure", "cheaper", "better for the economy". Those things are virtually, no, totally impossible to validate. So good legislation would stick to things that can be proven.

1) The state shall use software that prevents lock in to one vendor. This means using open standards for all data storage and transmition formats, and all APIs to access and transmit that data.

a) When more than one application exists, prioprietary or open source, the state shall evaluate which application best fits the states needs. This includes considering cost, support, and usability. These factores are not weighted evenly, and are weighted on a case by case basis.

b)When no open source data format or API exists for a task, the state shall develop its own standard or shall secure the opening of an available proprietary standard.

These simple rules would acheive what we want anyway, and avoid all the sticky things like TCO, and security. Requiring open standards for file formats eliminate M$ .doc, .xls, .ppt, NTFS, SMB, etc.

There are alterantives to all of these, and they are open source. There's no reason M$ Office couldn't support OpenOffice formats. Or that M$ Windows couldn't support ext2/3 and NFS/Samba. Or that M$ couldn't open the M$Office formats.

Yeah, yeah, Samba *is* SMB, but not really. It's a reverse engineered solution. These solutions must be fully open. Samba is, SMB isn't.

Of course the open source community has a vast head start on supporting the current open formats and APIs, and hence open source applications have a chance to steal market share. M$ may choose to play or go away. Either way the state wins, the consumer wins, OpenSource wins. In the long run M$ might even win, because they are forced to put customers in a position where their data isn't locked into M$. M$ will from then on always have to have a good product in order to not lose customers to a competitor, open source or otherwise. They will end up with better products, and fewer law suits trying to break them apart.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Ludicrous      
by flacco on 2003.04.09 11:14 (
#48619)
User #3747 Info


HB 2892 is a discriminatory bill toward Proprietary software


When will this misconception die?


For starters, what they mean to say "is discriminatory toward proprietory software vendors."


And once you phrase it that way you can easily make the correction: "No, those vendors are perfectly welcome to provide their own open source software."


In other words, Open Source is simply a part of the specification for the software product. It's up to vendors to meet the spec. It's that simple - no discrimination involved.


[ Reply to This | Parent ]

What about Free Software?      
by Anonymous Reader on 2003.04.09 13:55 (
#48628)


I'd rather have my software Free than Open.

The community started with Free Software 19 years ago and it should continue with Free Software.
We didn't need OSI back then and we don't need them now.
Let's remember why GNU GPL was written and why Linus (among others) chose it over other licenses.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

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