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Wayback Machine Purged of Scientology Criticism
CensorshipPosted by timothy on Tuesday September 24, @06:28PM
from the hey-what's-a-little-black-ink dept.
muldrake writes "The Wayback Machine, an archive of websites as they appeared in their past incarnations, is reported by CNET in this story as having censored the Scientology-critical Xenu.net, in a repeat of the heavy-handed tactics used against Google as reported in this previous Slashdot thread."

 

 
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· muldrake
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· Also by timothy

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· Revisiting Berman-Coble Copyright Bill
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· Hearings On Bills To "Promote" Digital TV
· Lessig On Bounties For Spamhunters
· Wayback Machine Purged of Scientology Criticism

<  Linux At The BBC [updated] | Lessig On Bounties For Spamhunters  >
Wayback Machine Purged of Scientology Criticism | Log in/Create an Account | Top | 441 comments | Search Discussion
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1) | 2 (Slashdot Overload: CommentLimit 50)
Bigger news (Score:3, Interesting)
by Dancin_Santa (Dancin_Santa@hotmail.com) on Tuesday September 24, @06:32PM (#4323124)
(User #265275 Info | Last Journal: Friday July 19, @08:06AM)
Lifelong Scientology foe, Nicholas Cage, was married to Scientology fan Priscilla Presley last month. Which one changed religions?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
I, for one am glad. (Score:1)
by Torinaga-Sama on Tuesday September 24, @06:32PM (#4323126)
(User #189890 Info)
I am already tragically covered in Thetans. :-)

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Just another in a series. (Score:3, Funny)
by rpresser on Tuesday September 24, @06:32PM (#4323131)
(User #610529 Info)
It's very typical of the Church's actions; it's very typical of reactions to the Church's actions; and the next obvious step is public pressure from those who have an opinion, resulting in a very typical denoument: reversal of the removal. Ah, this was probably a very typical comment, adding nothing of interest. Go ahead and mod it down.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
What the hay? (Score:5, Insightful)
by Apreche on Tuesday September 24, @06:33PM (#4323132)
(User #239272 Info | http://slashdot.org/~apreche/journal/ | Last Journal: Thursday September 26, @09:21AM)
What is it about these scientologists that they can get away with this? The same bill of rights that allows their crazy cult to exist is the same one that allows me to make fun of them. If I had the money I would make the mother of all anti-scientologist websites. If you are a scientologist and are reading this, I invite you to my house.
It's one thign to believe in an all powerful deity that created the universe.
It's another thing to believe in a book that some guy wrote, because some other guy bet that he couldn't create a religeon.

Doesn't anyone have balls anymore?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re:What the hay? (Score:4, Insightful)
    by Dancin_Santa (Dancin_Santa@hotmail.com) on Tuesday September 24, @06:35PM (#4323148)
    (User #265275 Info | Last Journal: Friday July 19, @08:06AM)
    What is it about these scientologists that they can get away with this?

    They have a deep understanding of the power and reach of the legal system. They also have deep pockets to finance squelching operations.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Re:What the hay? by freaq (Score:1) Tuesday September 24, @06:57PM
    • Re:What the hay?-MS by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Tuesday September 24, @07:17PM
      • Re:What the hay? (Score:5, Interesting)
      by AnalogDiehard on Tuesday September 24, @08:04PM (#4323739)
      (User #199128 Info)
      They also have deep pockets to finance squelching operations.

      And where do they get these deep pockets? Not just their members.

      Are you on Earthlink? Fact: that ISP was started (and is still operated) by Scientologists.

      They have a deep understanding of the power and reach of the legal system.

      Not only that, their members are encouraged to lie and deceive. They have used slander and libel against their critics and have blackmailed third parties into making false accusations on record.

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Re:What the hay? (Score:5, Informative)
      by gentlewizard (gentleNOwizardSPAM@hotmail.com) on Tuesday September 24, @07:41PM (#4323581)
      (User #300741 Info)
      Slashdot HAS been targeted. One of the very few times that content has been deleted from Slashdot instead of just being modded into oblivion was in response to a Scientology lawsuit.
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:What the hay? by kin_korn_karn (Score:1) Tuesday September 24, @06:43PM
  • Travolta... by Dareth (Score:2) Tuesday September 24, @06:43PM
  • Re:What the hay? [ANYONE KNOW WHERE?] by ramdac (Score:1) Tuesday September 24, @06:46PM
    • Re:What the hay? (Score:5, Insightful)
    by bogie on Tuesday September 24, @06:48PM (#4323240)
    (User #31020 Info)
    "If I had the money "

    But you don't and they do. If someone will make it their life's mission to fuck you in ever possible way without relent for all of their existence, would you bother messing with them.

    In others its the American way personified, money buys justice, and he with the most money wins.

    I used to sneer at blanket statements like that, but anyone who disagrees at this point is living in LaLa-Land.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Consequences. by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Tuesday September 24, @07:05PM
      • Re:Consequences. by Malcontent (Score:2) Tuesday September 24, @07:07PM
      • Re:Consequences. by Spruitje (Score:3) Tuesday September 24, @07:19PM
        • Re:Consequences. (Score:5, Informative)
        by Platinum Dragon on Tuesday September 24, @07:57PM (#4323687)
        (User #34829 Info | http://platinumdragon.ca/ | Last Journal: Friday February 08, @04:10AM)
        And at that point, when said person has nothing much to live for anymore and certainly nothing to lose, Scientology HQ will go up in a big orange-red ball of ammonium nitrate and diesel oil.

        Frankly, I'm surprised that it hasn't happened already. But with their present behavior, it's only a matter of time.

        Don't even joke about this kind of stuff - Keith Henson was convicted in California of religious intolerance for someone else cracking a joke on alt.religion.scientology about passing by the headquarters of Golden Era Productions (a Scientology front company) with a "Tom Cruise Missile", and published the coordinates for the complex, along with the occasional protest of Scientology orgs. He was convicted, and bolted to Canada. Last I heard, he applied for refugee status.
        [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      • Re:Consequences. by Derleth (Score:3) Tuesday September 24, @08:21PM
      • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:What the hay? by rgmoore (Score:3) Tuesday September 24, @07:40PM
      • Re:What the hay? by haggar (Score:2) Tuesday September 24, @08:17PM
          Re:What the hay? (Score:5, Informative)
          by nelsonal (adam_nelson@yahoo.com) on Tuesday September 24, @08:58PM (#4323994)
          (User #549144 Info)
          I should really make this a text file so I don't have to type it each time...

          The McDonald's case, although popular belief would hold otherwise, was actually a reasonably good decision. The story brought to the jury, which is all that is allowed to be decided upon, goes as such. The lady recieved second and third degree burns all around her lower torso and legs, to the extent that quite a bit of plastic surgery was required. However even including reimbursment for medical bills and pain and suffering the compensatory damage was very small (160,000 USD). I think almost everyone can agree that was probably fair, since it compensates her for her lost time, and expenses. The rest of the judgement was punative, and was intended to punish the McDonalds corporation for their behavior. Keep in mind that the verdict was probably calculated as a result of McDonald's finances. It was later reduced to 3 times compensatory damages.
          What sort of behavior would incite a jury to want to punish the company like that? Well, first of all realize that coffee is usually served around 160 F (~71 C), which will not produce the burns she suffered. The coffee was estimated to be about 190 F (~87 C), by medical experts, from the nature and severity of the burns. McDonald's was not errant in keeping their coffee this hot, it was corporate policy. The policy was designed to save money, because hotter coffee lasted longer before dispoal was required. The jury deemed this action so negligent that they decided to punish the company, hense the judgement.

          You can read much more than I wish to type here, at a consumer's attorney page here. [lectlaw.com]
          [ Reply to This | Parent ]
        • Re:What the hay? by frankie (Score:2) Wednesday September 25, @12:56PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:What the hay? by 6Yankee (Score:1) Wednesday September 25, @07:57AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:What the hay? by REDNOROCK (Score:2) Tuesday September 24, @07:23PM
  • Re:What the hay? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday September 24, @07:40PM
  • Re:What the hay? by The Qube (Score:2) Tuesday September 24, @08:53PM
  • Re:What the hay? by Planesdragon (Score:2) Tuesday September 24, @10:30PM
  • Re:What the hay? by Ninja Programmer (Score:1) Wednesday September 25, @02:46AM
  • Re:What the hay? by Steeltoe (Score:2) Wednesday September 25, @04:03AM
  • Re:What the hay? by MrFredBloggs (Score:1) Wednesday September 25, @05:26AM
  • Re:What the hay? by mpe (Score:2) Wednesday September 25, @06:56AM
    • Re:What the hay? (Score:4, Insightful)
    by lugonn on Tuesday September 24, @07:55PM (#4323680)
    (User #555020 Info)
    You don't see the Apostles suing Gutenburg for copyright infringment. That's the difference. So no, it didn't happen to the Old or New testament.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
Don't worry, you can still access loads of it from (Score:2, Informative)
by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24, @06:33PM (#4323134)
Operation Clambake [xenu.net]. It's doubtful that they'll give in to any CoS overtures.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
why in the... (Score:2, Insightful)
by Skal Tura on Tuesday September 24, @06:34PM (#4323140)
(User #595728 Info | http://czn.ath.cx/)
Why do they censor some sites, i thought their job was to preserve everything, not just some things.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Maybe /. will get sued too? (Score:5, Informative)
by Drunken Coward on Tuesday September 24, @06:34PM (#4323146)
(User #574991 Info | Last Journal: Saturday September 21, @06:51AM)
What is Scientology?
by Xenu.net

L. Ron Hubbard quote:
"Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion"
Reader's Digest reprint, May 1980, p.1
Hubbard later created the Church of Scientology...

Based on a text by ex-Scientologist Roland Rashleigh-Berry. Roland wrote: "This is my personal opinion. I grant permission to anyone to reproduce this material. This description has been tailored to people who have never been Scientologists and seek a simple and short explanation as to what it is and why it is surrounded by controversy."

In a Nutshell
The Church of Scientology is a vicious and dangerous cult that masquerades as a religion. Its purpose is to make money. It practices a variety of mind-control techniques on people lured into its midst to gain control over their money and their lives. Its aim is to take from them every penny that they have and can ever borrow and to also enslave them to further its wicked ends.
It was started in the 1950s by a science fiction writer named L. Ron Hubbard in fulfilment to his declared aim to start a religion to make money. It is an offshoot to a method of psychotherapy he concocted from various sources which he named "Dianetics". Dianetics is a form of regression therapy. It was then further expanded to appear more like a religion in order to enjoy tax benefits. He called it "Scientology".

Scientology is a confused concoction of crackpot, dangerously applied psychotherapy, oversimplified, idiotic and inapplicable rules and ideas and science-fiction drivel that is presented to its members (at the "advanced" levels) as profound spiritual truth.

The Harm it Does to a Person
The results of applying their crackpot psychotherapy (called "auditing") is to weaken the mind. The mind goes from a rational state to an irrational one as the delusional contents of the subconscious mind are brought to the surface and are assumed to be valid. It also makes a person more susceptible to suggestion since it submerges the critical thinking faculties of the mind into a partial subconscious state. It results in a permanent light hypnotic trance and so from thenceforth that person can be more easily controlled. The person will, to a much greater extent, believe and do whatever they are told. And of course this is used to the full in persuading them to hand over further money and dedicating themselves further to the cult.
The results of applying their oversimplified and inapplicable rules in life is to lose the ability to think rationally and logically. A person loses the ability to think for themselves and so they lose the ability to challenge incorrect ideas. This makes them easier to control. It also isolates and alienates the person from society so that they withdraw from normal society and into their "Scientology" society. This further increases their susceptibility to the influence of their group. They end up being afraid of society, believing all society to be controlled by a group of drug companies, psychiatrists and financiers all of whom report to more remote masters. In other words they are in a state of mass paranoia. They therefore avoid reading newspapers and the like since they fear it will disturb their safe Scientology world. It is a downward spiral into madness.

The science fiction content of Scientology is revealed to them after they have reached the state they call "Clear", meaning freed from the aberrations of the mind. However, perhaps "brainwashed" would be a more applicable word to describe the mental state of someone who has survived the near entire delusional contents of their subconscious mind brought to the surface and presented to them as "truth". On the "advanced" levels (called OT levels) above the state of "Clear" they encounter the story of Xenu. Xenu was supposed to have gathered up all the overpopulation in this sector of the galaxy, brought them to Earth and then exterminated them using hydrogen bombs. The so

Read the rest of this comment...

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Just a matter of time... (Score:2, Insightful)
by brooks_talley (brooks@frEULERnk.com minus math_god) on Tuesday September 24, @06:36PM (#4323160)
(User #86840 Info | Last Journal: Monday September 23, @07:18PM)
It's just a matter of time before those cultists^H^H^H^H^H^Hmaniacs^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hspiritual ly enlightened folks get a federal law passed making it a capital offense to say things like "scientology is a cult" or "scientology is a scam" or "scientology may be slightly imperfect."

Really, though, this greatly reduces the value of the wayback archive, since it can no longer be considered canonical. I wonder what else they're omitting?

Cheers
-b
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
The ultimate anit-scientology site (Score:5, Informative)
by geek on Tuesday September 24, @06:37PM (#4323170)
(User #5680 Info | Last Journal: Friday September 27, @01:05AM)
http://www.clambake.org/

Operation Clam Bake. Wanna know an interestin fact? Scientologists believe we evolved from clams. Hence the name of the site "Clam Bake".

This guy has balls taking on this cult. I'm surprised they have put a hit on him. I mean Travolta was a bad mofo in Pulp Fiction.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Is this really supposed to help? (Score:5, Insightful)
by sam31415 (gafksa01 AT luther DOT edu) on Tuesday September 24, @06:38PM (#4323181)
(User #558641 Info)
Fact: Most people on the net have probably never heard of the Wayback Machine.

Fact: Most people on the net have probably never heard of Xenu.net, either.

Fact: People on the net have, however, heard of major news outlets.

Fact: Censorship is always a great topic for the major news outlets to cover, because it helps portray the image that they would never do such a thing with their coverage.

Conclusion: What was the Church of Scientology thinking? This move will only increase the number of people hitting xenu.net.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
man, i don't get the scientologists (Score:5, Insightful)
by circletimessquare (circletimessquare@yahoo.com) on Tuesday September 24, @06:38PM (#4323184)
(User #444983 Info)
it's an old public relations adage: "there is no such thing as bad publicity." learn your simple lessons in life scientologists!

i know about xenu.net ONLY because of scientology's fervent attacks on it. if you elevate something up to such consternation, you only ignite everyone else's curiosity about what concerns you so much about something. how does scientology defeat xenu.net? by IGNORING it. letting it fade into obscurity. the more they attack xenu.net, the more we all know about it, "we all" being those who could care less about scientology one way or the other. and therefore, we now all know about scientology's seedy underside. and therefore, us neutrals now DO care about scientology... that is, we don't care much for it! lol ;-P
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Boom! (Score:4, Interesting)
by slug359 (slug.warp13@co@uk) on Tuesday September 24, @06:39PM (#4323185)
(User #533109 Info | http://www.warp13.co.uk/)
Scientology follow the strict doctrine: 'Always attack, never defend,' one of Hubbard's teachings.

In anti-Scientology [xenu.net] circles this is known as 'Operation Footbullet [xenu.net]' for obvious reasons.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Boom! by unicron (Score:2) Tuesday September 24, @06:54PM
  • Re:Boom! by EZmagz (Score:1) Tuesday September 24, @06:57PM
  • falun gong? by tobo (Score:1) Tuesday September 24, @07:53PM
Slashdot.. (Score:3, Funny)
by Galahad2 on Tuesday September 24, @06:42PM (#4323204)
(User #517736 Info | http://www.post84.org/)
Wow.. Slashdot has looked the same for ever . I guess us nerds like to be mired in traditio... er... consistant. I mean, without the dates, old news, and missing images, I don't know if I could tell the difference.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Erm.. by Galahad2 (Score:1) Tuesday September 24, @06:44PM
  • Re:Slashdot.. by Diabolik (Score:1) Tuesday September 24, @09:08PM
LawMeme Has Suggestions for Archive.org (Score:4, Informative)
by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 24, @06:44PM (#4323213)
LawMeme not only has a detailed report with lots of links, they have suggestions on what archivel.org should do. See, Sherman, Set the Wayback Machine for Scientology [yale.edu] .
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
God Damn these Scientologists!!! (Score:5, Funny)
by RestiffBard ((ten.nnip) (ta) (ffitser)) on Tuesday September 24, @06:45PM (#4323218)
(User #110729 Info | http://www.pinn.net/~cabby)
oh, wait. he already has.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Wait a second (Score:2)
by Adam9 (adam[AT]darkfire[DOT]net) on Tuesday September 24, @06:47PM (#4323231)
(User #93947 Info | http://www.darkfire.net | Last Journal: Tuesday September 24, @03:32AM)
Hmm.. so if I publish a page (or even this very Slashdot article) about the Wayback machine not archiving Xenu, would that page (or this article) get put into the Wayback machine? Seems like the press (esp. from CNN) might get archived and defeat the original purpose of suppressing Xenu.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
In an odd twist of irony (Score:2, Funny)
by goodchef on Tuesday September 24, @06:48PM (#4323241)
(User #213729 Info | http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Thursday January 31, @12:55PM)
If you want your site removed from the archive, their FAQ [archive.org] refers you to their removing documents page [archive.org]... which comes back with a "page not found" error.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
LawMeme's Suggestions for Archive.org (Score:1)
by The Importance of on Tuesday September 24, @06:49PM (#4323244)
(User #529734 Info)
Yale's LawMeme actually has concrete suggestions for archive.org Sherman, set the Wayback Machine for Scientology [yale.edu]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
SlatkinFraud.com also blocked from ARCHIVE.ORG (Score:5, Informative)
by touretzky on Tuesday September 24, @06:50PM (#4323253)
(User #215593 Info | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst)
As the owners of SlatkinFraud.com [slatkinfraud.com], one of the websites that has been blocked completely from the Internet Archive, we were left puzzled and disturbed by the recent explanation provided by archive.org for our site's omission.

While we understand that the organization behind the Wayback Machine does not want to unwittingly contribute to copyright infringement, we are distressed by the way in which the removal of our site was conducted, and the lack of feedback that we received from archive.org when we questioned this decision earlier this year.

When a Wayback Machine user attempts to access the archived version of SlatkinFraud.com, they are instead provided with a misleading message claiming that the 'site owners' requested that it not be included in the archive. This is wholly untrue, and entirely in contradiction to the actual views of the website owners in question, who would very much like to see our site become part of the Internet Archive. The material contained within SlatkinFraud.com is wholly owned and maintained by its site owners.

Unfortunately, as has become clear in recent days, SlatkinFraud.com is not the only site that has been summarily removed from the Archive based on complaints from the Church of Scientology. In the explanation recently provided by archive.org, the writer notes that the Church "asserted ownership" of an unknown quantity of material that was, at the time, available through the Wayback Machine archives. The maintainers of archive.org, however, have apparently made no effort whatsoever to inform site owners of these complaints lodged against their material, and in fact, until now, had not even replied to direct questions regarding the removal of certain sites when asked by the site owners in question.

This is clearly not an acceptable system for determining what sites or material should be archived by the Wayback Machine, since it does not adhere to one of the main provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act: the counter-notification process.

Under the DMCA, the owner of a site that has been alleged to contain infringing material has the right to challenge that claim via a counternotification letter to the hosting ISP if he or she believes that the material in question does not infringe on the copyright in question. After receiving this counter-notification from the user, the ISP is obliged to replace any files that were temporarily removed pending the complaint, at which point the original complainant must either initiate formal legal action against the owner of the site, or drop the matter entirely.

This system provides an important check to the sometimes perilous balance between the rights of copyright owners, and those of users. By formalizing the process, and allowing a response from the individual responsible for the alleged infringement, it frees the hosting company from the annoyance of dealing with frivolous claims.

A similar situation that arose resulted from similar complaints made by Church of Scientology lawyers about certain listings on the popular search engine Google. These complaints initially resulted in the wholesale removal of several Scientology-related sites from the Google database. Once this omission was discovered, the decision taken by Google to remove the sites without notice led to an outcry from its users. In fact, on closer examination of the complaints from Scientology, it became immediately obvious that the Church's lawyers were acting in bad faith by deliberately mixing trademark and copyright complaints, even though trademark complaints are not covered under the DMCA at all.

The ensuing barrage of criticism and media coverage both national and international forced Google to reconsider its decision. After several days, the company replaced the links in question, and agreed to make public any further DMCA complaints in cooperation with Chilling Effects, a non-profit website dedicated to preventing abuse of existing copyri

Read the rest of this comment...

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
good thing we've got freenet (Score:4, Informative)
by fdsa on Tuesday September 24, @06:50PM (#4323255)
(User #78632 Info)
Find information about scientology at

freenet:SSK@Zl388MATYv0Ah8GY6I2GuuNJapYPAgM/borg/2 //
freenet:SSK@WRhGF3h0ijFh1eVJnFu~H9OyIpAPAgM/antisc ient/5//
freenet:SSK@jbf~W~x49RjZfyJwplqwurpNmg0PAgM/xenu2/ /

on freenet [freenetproject.org].
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Thetans DRM (Score:1)
by jmcnamera on Tuesday September 24, @06:54PM (#4323277)
(User #519408 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
The Scientologists need to use their secret Thetan DRM to protect their secret intellectual property rights.

Hopefully they'll protect it so well we won't have to hear about them ever again.

Now they need to go after Slashdot to get rid of these posts...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
This might be the stark fist of removal (Score:3, Funny)
by sawilson on Tuesday September 24, @06:59PM (#4323308)
(User #317999 Info | http://www.subgenius.com/)
that the church of the subgenius tells us to
beware of. It's a much more logical church
than the SoC. Some examples:

"You'd PAY to know what you REALLY think." --Dobbs 1961

"This is the original Time Control program that has helped thousands to fear no longer the STARK FIST of REMOVAL."

"Follow your FOLLIES and COMPULSIONS and become rich like us"

http://www.subgenius.com/

Many many similarities actually. And it's easy
to become an ordained minister. Check it out.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Showing support (Score:2)
by dirk (dirk@one.net) on Tuesday September 24, @07:04PM (#4323335)
(User #87083 Info | http://cafeleprick.no-ip.com/)
And now, so show how much we believe that Xenu.net should be viewed, we're going to slashdot the hell out of it to make sure no one can see it! Maybe this is the scientologists real plans to take it down?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Copyright statement (Score:2, Informative)
by Student_Tech on Tuesday September 24, @07:07PM (#4323354)
(User #66719 Info | Last Journal: Friday September 27, @10:01AM)
Has anybody read the copyright statement @ http://www.scientology.org/csi.htm .
" Users are not authorized to download or transmit any of these materials electronically "


So by viewing it on a computer you are commiting an illegal act according to the words of the document. It also says that you may not print it.

Skiming their trademarks page, http://www.scientology.org/tmnotice.htm , that ones a killer. But skimming it in their trade marks they claim (among other things): flag, freedom, Source. After some items they have Symbol or Logo, but not after these.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Anti-Scientology site possible IF ... (Score:1)
by Ra5pu7in on Tuesday September 24, @07:08PM (#4323359)
(User #603513 Info)
Guess what? It is more often than not copyright violations that get these sites knocked down. A site that was 100% upfront about all sources of all information and didn't include any copyrighted material would be much harder for them to suppress.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
i read something about scientology... (Score:1)
by Skal Tura on Tuesday September 24, @07:13PM (#4323385)
(User #595728 Info | http://czn.ath.cx/)
I just read the intro to scientology on Xenu.net and well now i'm really beginning to wonder why heavy-weights like amazon and google have been so polite to this 'church of $cientology'.

My conclusion is that either those companies have some 'believers' on their lines or they have been paid to take atleast temporarily all links to critical material about $cientology.
That might not be true but it mostly looks like that, good luck for xenu.net and other sites like that and the 'Warrios of internet' (like they say to be in their site) crippling this 'Church of $cientology'

How twisted might have been the inventors, Ron Hubbard, mind been to make something like that up and then start believing it.
He apparently gave his little finger to the devil and devil ate the whole man!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
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Henson's home invaded just yesterday (Score:5, Interesting)
by muldrake (Rob_Clark@justice.com) on Tuesday September 24, @07:17PM (#4323405)
(User #171275 Info)
In recent news, Keith Henson [operatingthetan.com] had his home invaded [operatingthetan.com] just yesterday under pretext of bankruptcy asset investigation, because he has been bankrupted by Scientology litigation.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
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Fighting back. (Score:3, Informative)
by BoneFlower (g.worrollNO@SPAMsubdimension.com) on Tuesday September 24, @07:17PM (#4323407)
(User #107640 Info | http://members.aol.com/ctraverboy/)
Heres a few ideas on fighting back.

1) Sign up for all the free websites you can. Throw as much scientology material as will fit in the space provided. Get as many people as possible to link to you. As each gets knocked down, keep putting more up. The internet can be faster than Scientology. Don't do this on paid webspace or a website you make money from unless you can afford the financial loss of the site getting pulled.

2) Throw megs and megs of anti scientology materials and "copyrighted" Scientology texts in your Kazaa, Direct Connect, Gnutella, etc. share directories. In Direct Connect, you can have a line that users will see a brief description of what you are offering. MAke sure to put Anti-Scientology there.

3) Get on pro Scientology mailing lists(there have to be a few with open membership) and spam it with anti scientology information. Even if they make it an invite only list in response, you still have won as fewer impressionable minds will randomly join.

Of course, you have to be a little careful especially with the last tactic, don't use your ISP email address.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Interesting thread in the archive.org forums (Score:5, Informative)
by fobbman on Tuesday September 24, @07:17PM (#4323408)
(User #131816 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
Read all about it over in their forums in this thread [archive.org].

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re: Scientology... (Score:1)
by corey_lawson on Tuesday September 24, @07:21PM (#4323435)
(User #562933 Info)
...perhaps if Google, et al., could reply to CoS' demands to delete anti-CoS data by also promising to delete pro-CoS data as well... maybe that would shut them up. That is what I would do, anyways. But I don't run Google.

CoS: "You have no right to do that!"

Them: "Actually, we do. It's our website, not yours. What is fair for the goose is fair for the gander."

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
I don't get it... (Score:2, Insightful)
by MrSeb (mrseb@mrsebWELTY.com minus author) on Tuesday September 24, @07:24PM (#4323455)
(User #471333 Info | http://www.mrseb.com/)
Whether or not it's censorship, lack of free-speech, whatever. THEY HAVE THE WORK COPYRIGHTED.

Mod me down, but this has to be said.

Copyright laws exist to protect the authors -- they might be using the law pretty heavy-handedly, but it's the law, they can use it.

When someone violates the GPL (a copyright breach, in effect), we go mental at that person until they release the code again under the GPL.

This is the same thing, it's just the copyright holder isn't held in such high asteem as linux/opensource, whatever. It doesn't mean that they can't use the law. The law is available to everyone, for whatever purpose.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
You think that's bad? (Score:2)
by guttentag on Tuesday September 24, @07:30PM (#4323496)
(User #313541 Info | http://buddyretriever.sourceforge.net/ | Last Journal: Monday August 26, @04:56PM)
You should read this Slashdot posting [slashdot.org] about this really bad thing they did. Man, that was unbelievable. To think that they actually got away with that... Fortunately, they'll never be able to censor Slashdot!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Freenet (Score:2)
by commonchaos on Tuesday September 24, @07:40PM (#4323574)
(User #309500 Info | Last Journal: Wednesday September 25, @06:08AM)
Perhaps something like this could be a catalyst for getting the word out for things like Freenet. Instead of putting actual content on the web. Put up a link into Freenet or the like with instructions included on how to get Freenet working.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Campaign... (Score:2)
by Fnkmaster (raefer@NO_SPAM_PLEASE.truexchange.com) on Tuesday September 24, @07:42PM (#4323594)
(User #89084 Info | http://www.truexchange.com)
I know I often see reports of things that anger me on Slashdot. I sometimes decide it's worth emailing people to complain. This is one of those times. If we all email info@archive.org or wayback@archive.org and register our dissatisfaction at their caving to requests from a cult to block material from perfectly legal websites, they might get the drift that it's bad publicity for them to go down like 50 cent whores.


If the CoS fuckers bring it to court and win, then there's nothing that can be done, but we have a responsibility as citizens and members of the Internet community to fight this kind of restriction of information about a dangerous cult.


I personally would be glad to donate some money to anybody faced with a lawsuit from CoS - I know there are probably a lot of other Slashdotters who feel the same way, and could help out a bit. These people are dangerous to the foundation of our free and democratic society. God forbid they should ever come near me or fuck with my First Amendment rights - I would eat these people for lunch and then shit them out into a little hole in the ground, their fruity little celebrity members and all.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Campaign... by WEFUNK (Score:2) Wednesday September 25, @04:20AM
  • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
church and state (Score:1)
by fermion (lowt@NoSPaM.bigfoot.com) on Tuesday September 24, @07:45PM (#4323611)
(User #181285 Info)
I often wonder if there were a more significant separation between church and state here in the U.S., these sorts of things might be solved. After all, a church is charges citizens, and without the aid of wiley accounts, pay no money on the profits. Churches already get special exemptions to discriminate, promote hatred, and create distrust in a community. Given that so much of what churches do is so UnAmerican, why should the get to interfere with U.S. elections or benefit from our copyright laws?

I may not be completely serious here, but the issue remains. I see Tax Exempt Religious Organizations abusing their status way too often. If they need Intellectual Property Protection, let them pay taxes!

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
XENILLA (Score:1)
by jodo on Tuesday September 24, @07:47PM (#4323624)
(User #209027 Info)
So the owners of Godzilla have gone after the Mozilla guys for trademark infringement. Wonder if CoS might go after the creators of Xena the Princess Warrior r.e. Xenu.
Just wondering...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Google's Solution... (Score:2)
by TheOnlyCoolTim (tim.bolbrock@veri ... TELLIGENTLIFE.net) on Tuesday September 24, @07:49PM (#4323636)
(User #264997 Info)
Google puts up a notice if you hit one of the Scientology censored pages, with a link to the Cease and Desist letter and a list of the censored pages.

Greatest fuck you to Scientology ever, without even having to take them to court.

Tim
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Maybe they should change the description.... (Score:1)
by Psx29 on Tuesday September 24, @07:52PM (#4323651)
(User #538840 Info)
from the page:

The Internet Archive is building a digital library of Internet sites and other cultural artifacts in digital form.

What it should be:

The Internet Archive is building a, censored per request, digital library of Internet sites and other cultural artifacts in digital form.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Somebody call Alanis Morisette... (Score:2, Funny)
by TrebleJunkie on Tuesday September 24, @07:52PM (#4323653)
(User #208060 Info | http://www.digitech.org/~tjunkie/ | Last Journal: Tuesday February 26, @08:57PM)
...because this is just fucking ironic.
 
The Wayback Machine is quite possibly the GREATEST example of copyright violation on the web. They steal damn near every piece of content on the web and call it a "library." Guess what folks? A *real* library pays for most, if not all, of it's content. (At the very least, they obtain their content by considerably more legal methods: grants, donations, interlibrary loans, etc... They don't just take a shopvac into a book store and suck up everything in sight.)
 
And to see them remove one person on the basis of possible copyright violations (note to all: the Xenu guys is most likely a nut; it's not like I'm crusading for the guy.), that's just rich, man.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
So the past is being censored... (Score:1)
by aerojad on Tuesday September 24, @08:10PM (#4323771)
(User #594561 Info)
Not that I am for critising anyone.. but in the end everyone has the right to say what they want, if we agree with it or not, if it is good and just or not. So I leave you with this... "And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed -if all records told the same tale -- then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past,' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.' And yet the past, though of its nature alterable, never had been altered. Whatever was true now was true from everlasting to everlasting. It was quite simple. All that was needed was an unending series of victories over your own memory. 'Reality control', they called it: in Newspeak, 'doublethink'."
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Anti-scientology hosting (Score:1)
by abiwon ({moc.deepsi} {ta} {nowiba}) on Tuesday September 24, @08:19PM (#4323826)
(User #608681 Info | http://www.boxadmin.com/)
We are offering no-cost hosting for any and all anti-scientology websites.

We will arrange you with as much diskspace/bandwidth and technical resources needed to disseminate and publicise your anti-Scientology site.

Online chat (ICQ/AIM) available for tech-support.

rabbimmsNO@SPAMispeed-dot-com

Free Speech --> Free hosting
May Scientology dissappear once and forever.

p.s. refer to this quote if needed for the free (as in Free-Speech) hosting.

p.p.s. don't forget to checkout www.xenu.net
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Scientology is worse than you think (Score:5, Interesting)
by lermanet on Tuesday September 24, @08:36PM (#4323912)
(User #567993 Info | http://www.lermanet.com/)

The wayback machine situation and the google debacle previously covered on slashdot is just the tip of the iceberg of deception called Scientology.

The efforts to silence criticism cover the the complete gamut of the edges of what society will tolerate.

Time Magazine 1991 [lermanet.com]
Time Magazine was forced to spend 7.5 million defending this suit.
The Judge in the case concluded that Scientology was a cult [lermanet.com].

Don't wonder why there arn't more ex-members speaking out, Scientology has a pattern of conduct of litigation for silence. Look at how much they have spent GAGGING ex-members HERE. [lermanet.com] - Note well: This is just what I have been able to find out

Scientology claimed in its own court filings to have spent 1,700,000 suing me in RTC vs Lerma. Judge Brinkema was so outraged buy their conduct in the case, the raid where the scientologists, themselves, searched my home, [lermanet.com]even when they moved the attorney fees for the for 5/17ths of case that they 'won' { having LOST their TRADE SECRET CLAIMS ) for the story of XENU and the BODY THETANS [lermanet.com].. Judge Brinkema Awarded them ZERO.

Further Google, while running tons of adverts for scientology REFUSES to run mine

Remember this - what we have webbed is only WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT for sure... I've been at this for 8 years trying to expose them [lermanet.com], and even for me, I keep finding out that things that are worse than even I think

You have witnessed just the tip of the iceberg of the Scientology's pattern of conduct to try to intimidate witnesses into silence by extortionate conduct.

Anything you can do to get the word out will be appreciated..

Sincerely,


Arnie Lerma
An Ex-member
PS: Send lawyers and money
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re: Scientology is worse than you think by C0LDFusion (Score:2) Tuesday September 24, @09:02PM
  • Re: Scientology is worse than you think by gerardrj (Score:1) Tuesday September 24, @10:13PM
    • Re: Scientology is worse than you think by Happy Monkey (Score:1) Tuesday September 24, @11:14PM
    • Re: Scientology is worse than you think by ShavenYak (Score:2) Tuesday September 24, @11:50PM
      • Re: Scientology is worse than you think (Score:5, Insightful)
      by C0LDFusion on Tuesday September 24, @11:54PM (#4325011)
      (User #541865 Info | Last Journal: Friday August 09, @03:05AM)
      Most all of what you say is also applicable to the Roman Catholic Church:

      The Catholic Church does not have a policy of "Always attack, never defend.", it does not have an "Office of Special Affairs" that hires P.I.'s. It does not break into government buildings.

      They exist soley to collect money (sure they spend some of it on charitable things but what's with the gold goblets, fine linen robes, vast tracks of land, incredible ornate arcitecture, etc)

      Soley [For the sole purpose of?] for the purpose of money? Maybe in your eyes. According to your theory all religions that exist outside of a few people's basements is for the purpose of collecting money, because many churches/mosques/temples are on expensive tracts of land and are quite ornate.

      They intend to take over the world by converting everyone to their faith and using their vast monetary reserves to pay for votes in government

      You're thinking of the Baptist Church. If the Catholic Church bought votes, the only thing that'd be different is there'd be no abortion and condoms would be outlawed. That'd be pretty much it. And it's a bit different from Scientology, in that Hubbard stated that those who cannot become Scientologists must be "disposed of quietly and without sorrow".

      The worst the Catholic Church will do is excommunicate you, and once you've reached that point, you probably WANT to be excommunicated.

      They encourage their members to NOT read material about other religions, and detractors of the curch

      I've never been told by any member of the clergy to avoid reading anything else. In fact, one priest encouraged me to read everything I could about every other religion.

      So what's the problem again? Oh yea. the RCC has been around for 1500 or so years, and Scientology is only about 20 years old. Older MUST be better. So why not go back to the oldest religions and worship as the Greeks, or the Chineese? The problem is the following:
      1. Scientology tells people they are using a SCIENCE of the mind when they start. There is no SCIENCE in SCIENTOLOGY.
      If the Catholic Church claimed that communion was a SCIENCE, everyone would cry bullshit, but it's fine to hook someone up to a low-power TENS unit and induce a trance state and call it "applied religious philosophy" and "technology"?

      2. RCC's paid for it's crimes in the past and is paying now. As we post, Churches are closing and priests are having to either ditch the only vocation they've known since they were kids, or leave the communities they care about.
      Scientology answers for few of its crimes. Not to mention that they obfuscate the past of their founder and replace it with a fabrication that not only includes falsified stories of Nuclear Engineering and Naval War Injuries, but of travels, and even of his own family, including bigamist marraige practices.

      3. If my pockets are empty, I can still recieve Sacraments at any Catholic Church and I can still partake in communion at any protestant church. I'm not sure about other faiths, though. I do know, however, if I go into a Scientology Org and ask to take Dianetics Auditing, they'll ask where the money is. I tell 'em I'm broke, and they ask about credit cards, they want to know if I have any inheritance, or maybe I could take out a third mortgage...ANYTHING...but I can't get anything for free, except the personality test.
      It's the money factor. People volunteer their money to the Catholic Church. They won't kick you out if you don't tithe. But the Scientology guys will use ANYTHING to get you to drop some Benjamins.

      4. If I fail to show up at mass, I don't get annoying phone calls from guys asking why I haven't been around.
      If you don't show up for regular auditing at the local Scientology Org, you will be called daily, and they'll harass family members who "hold you back". And even if you get 'em to stop, they'll still junk mail you.

      An

      Read the rest of this comment...

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Re: Scientology is worse than you think by lermanet (Score:1) Wednesday September 25, @01:34AM
    • Re: Scientology is worse than you think by InnovATIONS (Score:1) Wednesday September 25, @03:35AM
    • Re: Scientology is worse than you think by forkb0y (Score:1) Wednesday September 25, @10:25AM
  • Re: Scientology is worse than you think by lermanet (Score:1) Wednesday September 25, @02:05AM
  • Re: Scientology is worse than you think by praedor (Score:3) Wednesday September 25, @10:09AM
  • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
Add it up. (Score:2)
by 3seas on Tuesday September 24, @08:41PM (#4323934)
(User #184403 Info | http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/ | Last Journal: Friday January 18, @02:44PM)
Add up all the anti-rights going on including DRM and Palladuim (sp?) and what you have is a revert back to the dark ages via computers....

I've been saying that it's been more majic spells and such than computer science.....

We have been there before and have gotten out of it before...

If history is a lesson to prevent duplication of history, then why are we not using that history to not duplicate it?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Add it up. by TheDanish (Score:1) Tuesday September 24, @09:06PM
they blocked my ENTIRE web site! (Score:5, Interesting)
by touretzky on Tuesday September 24, @08:47PM (#4323954)
(User #215593 Info | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst)
ARCHIVE.ORG has blocked my entire web site: all of www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst [cmu.edu]. My home page. My list of professional publications. My research project web pages. The Gallery of CSS Descramblers. Tutorial pages, Lisp book, everything I've written.

I don't exist. I've never existed. I've been erased from Internet history.

All because I dared to have some Scientology material on my web site.

ARCHIVE.ORG boasts a relationship with the Lbrary of Congress and with the National Science Foundation. I wonder if they are receiving any government funding. Surely it is impermissible to do the bidding of an abusive cult, at the expense of honest citizens, while taking government money?

-- Dave Touretzky
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Here's a scientology nightmare....... (Score:2)
by i_want_you_to_throw_ on Tuesday September 24, @08:56PM (#4323986)
(User #559379 Info)
Gnutella! Put all of what Scientology is fearful of on Gnutella and spread via peer to peer. Shut THAT down Scientology.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Spread the offending material via Gnutella! (Score:2)
by i_want_you_to_throw_ on Tuesday September 24, @09:24PM (#4324094)
(User #559379 Info)
It would be even beyond $cientology to shut that down.

Umm, umm fried clams...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Morons (Score:1)
by nurb432 on Tuesday September 24, @09:27PM (#4324115)
(User #527695 Info | http://www.instaview.com/)
The whole lot of them should be taken out back and shot.

They are all a bunch of f-ing idiots and need to get a grip.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
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Scientology = America's Al Qaida (Score:5, Insightful)
by Arcturax on Tuesday September 24, @09:45PM (#4324231)
(User #454188 Info | Last Journal: Tuesday September 17, @02:55PM)
I've posted this before, but what the hell, I might as well do it again.

Basically, Scientology is a terrorist organization/organized crime syndicate based out of the US. In fact, you can very easily compare them to Al Qaida.

Scientology and Al Qaida share these traits
- Threats of violence (and actual cases of murders and harm to people) and abuse of host countries legal system against detractors
- Interference with and infiltration of the governments in the countries they are hosted in
- Cells operating all over the world
- Stockpiles of weapons and armed compounds
- Religious dogma used to control members and threats and violence used to stop members who want to leave from leaving
- Members are expected to be utterly loyal and are stripped of almost all money and most worldly possessions.
- Use of torture and inhumane forms of punishment
- Uses money to attack enemies (for Al Qaide, the US and her allies, for Scientology, it is anyone who detracts from them.)
- Aims their recruiters at people who are vulnerable or off balance (drug users, the poor).

Hell, they even went as far as to interfere with medical workers helping 9/11 victims last year in their rush to try to recruit people in a state of shock over what had happened.

So, when is the Bush administration going to get serious about terrorists in this country and take out America's largest and most heavily financed terrorist organization?

When is the FBI going to raid Gold Base? Why isn't the Free Winds seized at customs next time it stops by and searched. I bet they find a lot of nose powder on board for the leaders despite the "church"'s insistance that they hate drugs.

Why don't they look into Clearwater and the CO$'s interference with the government there?

Why won't they listen to our own Allies who are telling us that the CoS is a big criminal racket?

So come on Bush admin, if you are going to bomb other countries, why don't you just take care of the terrorist organizations HERE in the US first?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
real reason (Score:2)
by Lepruhkawn on Tuesday September 24, @09:45PM (#4324233)
(User #199083 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
Embarrassment over an archived draft version of Battlfield Earth.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Rewriting History (Score:1)
by Josuah on Tuesday September 24, @10:14PM (#4324420)
(User #26407 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
The first thing that hit my brain when I read this is "history is written by the victors". Because in a lot of ways, that is exactly the type of tactic that is being used here.

The Wayback Machine has always been something I viewed as a type of historical record. But for the first time, we actually had a real record of everything. This wasn't an interpretation of history by an individual, or organization. This wasn't a collection of stories told by people, where each time the story is retold the meanings are changed and people tell things differently and emphasize different points of view. This was an actual snapshot of our history that would not be presented in any way other than it was, or corrupted by human motives or fallacy.

How many times have you wished for a time machine just so that we could really know what happened? We could really know how the Dinosaurs were destroyed. Who shot JFK. Why Hitler would invade his own country and promote racial superiority with characteristics he did not have himself. What really happened when Jesus was crucified. Exactly what did Mohammed see when Allah appeared to him. Did Atlantis exist. Did King Arthur really receive a sword from a lady in the lake.

Pure data gathering through something like the Wayback Machine has a real chance to take snapshots of time. You would have the ability to look at firsthand testimonials, videos, images, and audio from every viewpoint and in an entire context. U.S. history books may never discuss how the United States polarized after September 11th, but preserving all of the blogs and news articles and video footage and interviews dumped onto the Internet, from the United States, Afghanistan, other countries in the Middle East, all over the world, would provide our descendants with an understanding of what happened orders of magnitude greater than anything we can comprehend about history today.

A thousand years from now, when Scientology becomes the religion 99% of the human race believes in because we are scattered across galaxies, a historical record of Xenu.net and the debates on Scientology, the believers of Scientology, and the detractors, would be akin to finding the original stone tablet which Moses brought down from the heavens, along with every single version of the bible in every single language since then.

I cannot be happy with our species to see history get thrown away like this.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
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