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Australia Taps More Phones Than Entire U.S.
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being tapped (Score:1)
by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 16, @04:29AM (#4264262)
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And being one of those Australians who has been tapped - let me tell you it is not nice.
Especially when you are innocent.
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- Re:being tapped by Anonymous Conrad (Score:1) Monday September 16, @04:50AM
- Re:being tapped by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Monday September 16, @04:53AM
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- Re:being tapped by Anonymous Coward (Score:3) Monday September 16, @05:19AM
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Oh No (Score:2, Funny)
by WzDD on Monday September 16, @04:31AM (#4264266)
(User #23061 Info | http://www.lardcave.net)
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Lucky We Live In A Free Country Like America!
See What Happens When Citizens Give Up Their Guns?
This Would Never Happen If Australia Had A First Amendment Like The US!
Just wanted to get those out of the way. Carry on. :-)
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- Re:Oh No by rchatterjee (Score:3) Monday September 16, @04:45AM
- Does Australia have a constitution? by tgma (Score:1) Monday September 16, @05:05AM
- Re:Does Australia have a constitution? by bukharin (Score:2) Monday September 16, @05:20AM
- Re:Does Australia have a constitution? by darkov2 (Score:2) Monday September 16, @05:24AM
- Re:Does Australia have a constitution? by pubjames (Score:3) Monday September 16, @05:31AM
- Re:Does Australia have a constitution? by Proquar (Score:1) Monday September 16, @07:06AM
Re:Does Australia have a constitution? (Score:4, Interesting)
by carlfish (cmiller@pastiche.org) on Monday September 16, @09:22AM (#4265124)
(User #7229 Info | Last Journal: Wednesday October 17, @10:50PM)
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I really hope you were trolling. I'll bite anyway.
The Australian Constitution does not guarantee us any freedoms at all. If you read it, it's all about how power is divided between the State and Federal governments and the Governor General. There's no Bill of Rights, no guarantees of anything for the citizens save the right to vote in elections. Australian governments can pass any oppressive legislation they want.
We do have a pretty lame kind of freedom of speech, but you won't find it anywhere in the constitution. That's because the High Court invented it out of nowhere in the late 80's. It was an interesting case - the government of the day tried to pass a law restricting spending on political advertisements, the TV companies sued, and a one-judge majority in the High Court decided that we had a "freedom of political speech" implied in the constitution. In other words, "It's not there, but it should be so we'll pretend it is." The logic they used was tenuous to say the least.
Being a High Court decision, and a narrow majority, it could be overruled any time.
So there's no wonder we have more phone-taps than the USA. They have constitutional protection against unreasonable search, all we have is a Common Law doctrine of evidence that will mostly (but not always) suppress evidence that was illegally obtained.
Charles Miller
(Who isn't a lawyer, but did pass Constitutional Law before he dropped out of University to become a programmer)
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- Technically we aren't free. by nenolod (Score:1) Monday September 16, @12:48PM
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Suspicious ... (Score:3, Insightful)
by lushman on Monday September 16, @04:32AM (#4264269)
(User #251748 Info)
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I think that maybe CIA/FBI statistics are a little less forthcoming than those from ASIO. With all these measures to prevent terrorism, I'd assume that the CIA and FBI combined would be at least 20 times what they were just over a year ago anyway.
In short: I don't believe it.
The USA can keep dreaming that they have privacy, but guys, face it - you don't live in the land of the free any more.
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- Re:Suspicious ... by 1nhuman (Score:1) Monday September 16, @04:42AM
- Re:Suspicious ... by pubjames (Score:2) Monday September 16, @05:40AM
Re:Suspicious ... (Score:4, Insightful)
by Daniel Dvorkin on Monday September 16, @09:53AM (#4265340)
(User #106857 Info | http://www.sff.net/people/Daniel.Dvorkin)
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I agree with you, and I have posted opinions like this to Slashdot before. However, it's best just not to bother posting this type of stuff. You will just get insulted and called communist/ liberal/ socialist/ Eurotrash/ America-hater and whatever. Just don't post this kind of opinion. Lots of Americans just aren't tolerant of it. (Ironic isn't it? For people that go on about freedom of speech so much!) Free speech != keeping your mouth shut when someone says something you disagree with. Quite the opposite.
That being said, as an American, I cringe at those comments you're talking about, because free speech also doesn't mean that you should shoot your mouth off without thinking every time someone presses your buttons. And anyone who uses words like "commie" or "eurotrash" in serious conversation is, by definition, not worth paying attention to.
Anyway ... It's true that now many European countries have just as much freedom as the US. But you've got to look at the historical background. At the time of the War of 1812 (when the lines "land of the free and home of the brave" were written) every other great power in the world was a monarchy (unles you want to argue that France under Napoleon was somehow less a monarchy than the rest of Europe under traditional dynasties; I wouldn't.) Ironically, the only other great power in the world that could lay claim to anything approaching the degree of freedom the US offered in those days was Britain, which was slowly approaching a de facto democracy even then. But the idea of the US as uniquely free was really quite accurate then, and it was burned into our national consciousness.
I'm the child and grandchild of immigrants, and I've lived outside the US for substantial periods of time; I know that we're not all there is to the world, and that there are many other places in the world that offer a very good life. I am also a veteran and a patriot; I love my country and hope that it will retain its historical role as a beacon of freedom in a world where too many are oppressed. That's why current trends, both in the US and throughout the free world, scare the shit out of me.
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- Re:Suspicious ... by cs668 (Score:2) Monday September 16, @08:51AM
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About America... (Score:4, Insightful)
by El Camino SS on Monday September 16, @09:44AM (#4265259)
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I know a lot of you out there think that your home countries are a lot safer, more interesting, etc.... and I agree. But you forget one thing about it. America is a real soup of people, and NOTHING COMES EASY IN AMERICA.
That is the nature of the soup that is the good 'ol USA. Most of the people that are from Finland and Norway say that there are no tensions and no problems at all with others.. well, move to Minnesota or the Upper Penninsula in the USA and you will notice that there is less violence there too... on the count that there really are less ethnic-religious-governmental-general-people tensions. Its the land of happy, slightly overweight hockey playing white guys. Lots of cheese.
I mean honestly, what the hell is there to argue about in Finland? Do you have a thousand cabbies that come from every country in the world and can't understand you, nor you understand them when they speak? Do you have hundreds of religious groups pining for their big piece of the political pie? Do you have anything that might get you annoyed like that? Unregistered illegal Mexican drivers that ran over kids in a schoolyard and then get no punishment because they are not US citizens, and caused all of this becasue they can't be bothered to read and understand English road signs?
WHY DOES AMERICA HAVE ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS? Because when poor, uneducated, huddled masses think of travelling to a land of prosperity they don't look around their straw hut and say, "Let's go to Iceland!"
Don't get me wrong. That's a good thing about being an American. But also you don't get this: when a Mexican punk drug dealer shoots a Texas cop on a sting in front of police, you also don't get an international incident where Vincente Fox shows his ass as a "show of power" to the American people over a P.O.S. drug dealer. The last time I checked, the Netherlands hasn't sent troops anywhere to save people. SO the Netherlands hasn't drawn any heat for it either. Believe it or not, there are several places in the world where people are excited to see me because I am a representative of America. Not everyone will try to kidnap me.
America-bash away. I don't blame anyone for liking a home country where everyone basically acts and looks the same as you... sounds great. Never had that. Probably pretty nice.
WE ARE JUST DIFFERENT, WITH DIFFERENT PROBLEMS. NOT BETTER OR WORSE THAN ANYONE, JUST WITH DIFFERENT PROBLEMS. But you can't really blame the USA for going crazy every day. You'd be nuts too if you had this many people that can't agree.
And another thing. When everyone says we don't need an army it just makes me laugh. Well, that is because we are doing the job for you. Keep in mind that if anyone invaded Norway, Iceland, The Netherlands, Australia, beautiful New Zealand, or anywhere else civilized... we might have the jets in the air faster than you might have yours. Why?
NOT BECAUSE AMERICA WANTS TO BE MR. BADASS ALL THE TIME. Its actually simpler than that.
That is what true friends do for friends when they need help. We'd kick butt again for France or Germany (or the Netherlands) in a second if they needed it. Of course, the UK doesn't even need to ask. You get punched silly for even looking at the UK in front of the USA.
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- Re:Suspicious ... by k-0s (Score:3) Monday September 16, @04:55AM
- Re:Suspicious ... by hype7 (Score:1) Monday September 16, @05:59AM
- Re:Suspicious ... by The AtomicPunk (Score:1) Monday September 16, @01:10PM
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Good luck to them... (Score:3, Funny)
by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 16, @04:34AM (#4264273)
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They're welcome to our line. I admire anyone that could stand more than 5 minutes of listening to the crap that my sister speaks about all day long on the phone.
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I submitted this 30 years ago (Score:2, Funny)
by HacTar on Monday September 16, @04:34AM (#4264274)
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Silly. What did you think seti was for?
To spy ET phone home..
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Big deal (Score:5, Informative)
by Basje on Monday September 16, @04:35AM (#4264276)
(User #26968 Info | http://www.bloemsaat.com/)
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I live in the Netherlands (pop 15 million, about as much as NYC) and the police over here taps more phones than the whole of the US.
It's not as much the phone taps that are in place that worry me. It's the taps that should be there and that are prevented by corrupt officials.
Land of the free. Yeah sure, but only when you've bought your local politician/whatever.
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- Re:Big deal by bengen (Score:1) Monday September 16, @04:44AM
- Re:Big deal by trevsta (Score:2) Monday September 16, @07:02AM
- Re:Big deal by Dark Lord Seth (Score:1) Monday September 16, @08:42AM
- I Agree by shepd (Score:2) Monday September 16, @12:04PM
- indeed more taps in NL by barryvoeten (Score:1) Monday September 16, @01:08PM
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US Gov too busy (Score:1)
by svindler on Monday September 16, @04:45AM (#4264299)
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They are probably all too busy tapping us foreigners, so they don't have the time to tap themselves.
Besides, when you've heard one yankee, you've heard them all.
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Echelon... (Score:5, Insightful)
by kinko on Monday September 16, @04:49AM (#4264304)
(User #82040 Info)
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Echelon makes this kind of irrelevant. The 5 countries that are part of Echelon (US, UK, Canada, Australia, and NZ) can basically listen in on ANY phone call/fax/email/IP etc in any of the other countries. There are some computers here in New Zealand that are directly controlled by the US (NSA I think). This means that the NZ govt (and Aust govt etc) can listen to US phone calls. Now part of the reason it is set up like this is that the US authorities can use the NZ bit of the network to listen to US calls. This way it is technically not "domestic spying" as it is occurring over here.
I guess the wiretaps they're talking about here are for court-issued wiretaps for the police, rather than the secret services.
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What now? (Score:1)
by jobbleberry on Monday September 16, @04:51AM (#4264308)
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How will I go about conspiring with my terrorist buddies now. It's getting harder to be a sleeper agent in the asia pacific region. Looks we will will have to go back to pidgeons.
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Telling quote. (Score:3, Funny)
by Camel Racer on Monday September 16, @04:51AM (#4264311)
(User #134168 Info | http://www.bbspot.com/)
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I found the quote
The spokeswoman said the Australian figures reflected the "increasing sophistication of criminals and their use of new technology".
especially telling.
Guess that explains everything. The crooks, labor organizers, and opposition, have mastered the "sophistication" of the telephone.
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so that means (Score:1)
by Gabrill (gabril @ t c a i nternet.com) on Monday September 16, @04:53AM (#4264317)
(User #556503 Info)
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the ratio of tapped phones to population must be tremendous. Theres only what? 20,000,000 people in Australia?
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Been there done that. (Score:5, Funny)
by Black Copter Control (samuel-local.bcgreen@com) on Monday September 16, @04:54AM (#4264322)
(User #464012 Info | http://www.bcgreen.com/)
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I've been friend and associate of enough interesting activists that ther have been times when I just pre-emptively presumed that my line was being tapped (there was actually one instance where I had some circumstantial evidence that my line really was being tapped.
I know that one friend of mine had her phone line bugged over some activist work she was doing. She saw the transcripts. Her comment on it was "all they got were some really nice recipies".
Not that all that stopped me from saying much: As Ghandi once said:
Let then know exactly what you're going to do, and then hope that they overreact
At one point, my outgoing phone message (on the phone company's voice messaging system) said:
Hi: You've reached the home of Stephen and Regan. Unfortunately, our answering machine is broken, but that's OK -- Our phone line is being tapped. So speak clearly and we'll get the transcripts from our lawyers.
Most people recognized it as a joke, but a couple took it seriously... Regan's mom, particularly left a message worrying about whether or not we were going to get the message, and what kind of roommates did he have that we were getting our line tapped?
It was the best laugh I had for months.
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Phonetapping just-in-case, fishing for crimes? (Score:2)
by jukal on Monday September 16, @04:55AM (#4264325)
(User #523582 Info | http://www.openchallenge.org/ | Last Journal: Sunday September 01, @04:08PM)
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As the article also states that:"
However despite the greater reliance on phone taps, it seems Australian authorities have had less success with solving crimes. Figures also show that in 2000-2001 Australian agencies made 1033 arrests and obtained 623 convictions, while US authorities made 3683 arrests with 732 convictions."
So, maybe this means that phone-tapping in Australia has become the default part of crime solving-process at very early stage and that the right to phonetap can be obtained on very vague basis. Atleast here in Finland, AFAIK, it goes so that first they have to show quite strong evidence, and then if the evidence exists they can phonetap to get more evidence. In australia - based on these figures - it seems to be the reverse: phonetap to get initial evidence, then do rest of research.
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PATRIOT! (Score:3, Funny)
by DoctorFrog on Monday September 16, @04:56AM (#4264329)
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America must claw its way back to the top. We can't have the Aussies showing us up! Support your local PATRIOT Actors...
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privacy vs conviction rate (Score:5, Insightful)
by Jotham (jotham@ghostmail.net) on Monday September 16, @05:01AM (#4264339)
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Figures also show that in 2000-2001 Australian agencies made 1033 arrests and obtained 623 convictions, while US authorities made 3683 arrests with 732 convictions.
Out of 3683 arrests they only made 732 convictions? that's less than 20% compared with Australia's 60% conviction rate.
Either the US is arresting a hell of a lot of innocent people or they need to spend a bit more time collecting evidence before they make their arrests.
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but only 1490 in the US (Score:1)
by humandj on Monday September 16, @05:12AM (#4264367)
(User #547981 Info | http://google.com/)
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only 1490 warrants issued. maybe, but how many phones are tapped without the warrant in the usa? with all the technology for taps. do we really think it's only 1490?
i don't think so...
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So... (Score:1, Redundant)
by J4 on Monday September 16, @05:14AM (#4264374)
(User #449 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
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I should be happy, because Australia is worse than the US in this regard?
Sorry, that's bullshit.
I suppose I should shut up because because I don't have to deal with the GFoC either?
Fuck it, none of this is important. I should
concentrate on bitching about the RIAA instead.
My bad.
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does anyone believe these figures ???? (Score:4, Interesting)
by The Famous Druid on Monday September 16, @05:18AM (#4264382)
(User #89404 Info | http://www.netspace.net.au/~coderoffortune)
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Does anyone really believe that the entire US spy industry only taps 1490 phones per year???
At current levels of funding, that would work out at about $50 million per phone tap.
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Missquote? (Score:5, Insightful)
by BoBaBrain on Monday September 16, @05:19AM (#4264386)
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Shouldn't it read "Last year Australian authorities admitted to tapping more phones all United States authorities combined"?
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Wow (Score:1)
by fldvm on Monday September 16, @05:22AM (#4264390)
(User #466714 Info | http://www.petconnections.net/)
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Some one needs to tell Washington! We are getting behind ... not tapping nearly enough phones.
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don't feel too good about this... (Score:2)
by g4dget on Monday September 16, @05:27AM (#4264408)
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I kind of doubt US government agencies could give an accurate accounting of how many phones they have tapped if they wanted to, and they probably don't even want to. And "tapped" probably doesn't take into account any kind of monitoring and audio keyword search that isn't aimed at a specific person.
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They must have really low crime rates... (Score:1)
by ceeam on Monday September 16, @05:28AM (#4264412)
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... if cops have nothing to do except listening to other people's phone talks.
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The Australian is also running the story (Score:1, Informative)
by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 16, @05:33AM (#4264420)
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We're bugged more than US By Duncan Macfarlane September 16, 2002
POLICE are being given authority to tap telephone conversations at
such an unprecedented rate that Australians are 20 times more likely
to be bugged than Americans. But despite the rate of tapping
increasing ninefold over the past decade, the ability of Australian
authorities to secure convictions as a result of listening to
telephone calls is lower than in the US.
In the past four years alone, the number of phone-tap warrants
approved by the courts and the Administrative Appeals Tribunal has
tripled from 675 to 2157 - one-third more than all state and federal
taps approved in the US.
In contrast to the US, our national security authorities, including
the Australian Security and Intelligence Organisation, do not
publish statistics of their bugs.
The extent of the tapping has prompted federal Labor justice
spokesman Daryl Melham to call for a new body to oversee the use
of phone taps by Australian police, possibly based on a model used
in Britain , which has a chief surveillance commissioner.
"There is an urgent need to strengthen the resources available for
external scrutiny of telephone interception activities and other
forms of intrusive surveillance," Mr Melham said.
Labor analysis shows that only seven of the 2164 police applications
for interception warrants were rejected by the courts last year.
Since 1999, when Administrative Appeals Tribunal officers were
first given power to issue warrants, numbers have increased sharply.
AAT officers now issue 94 per cent of all warrants, Family Court
judges 5 per cent, and Supreme Court judges only 1 per cent.
The Australian Council of Civil Liberties said the explosion in
warrants showed that police were forum shopping and targeting
sympathetic judicial officers.
Cameron Murphy, secretary of the council, demanded the federal
Government publish more detailed information to reveal if a handful
of judges and officials were responsible for most of the warrants.
"We think Australians would be aghast if they knew so many people's
phone conversations were being bugged," Mr Murphy said.
Labor also warned that Australian police were achieving far fewer
criminal convictions per phone tap than US authorities.
Between 1996 and 2001, US police made 3.31 arrests and secured 1.55
convictions for each phone tap.
Over the same period Australian agencies made only 0.63 arrests
per phone tap and 0.46 convictions.
A spokesman for Mr Melham said technological advances were part of
the reason for the explosion in tapping.
All telecommunications providers were now required to construct
their facilities so that police could tap phones centrally instead
of climbing telegraph poles.
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Phone tapping en masse is wrong (Score:1)
by dazdaz on Monday September 16, @05:35AM (#4264423)
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I think phone tapping en masse is wrong, and should only be used in the most severe of circumstances. Phone tapping people as hoc, or because their the wrong shade of blue or *may* be doing something that's unethical or perhaps illegal sets a very bad precedent.
So we trust the government through the election process, they should trust us, if trust is taken away from our society, then what's left?
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20x US phone taps? (Score:1)
by red_flea (saitosan_the_marinerNO@SPAMhotmail.com) on Monday September 16, @05:37AM (#4264426)
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You wanna know what's even worse? Look at this...
Australia "officially" tapped 2150 phones and has a population of about 20 million, roughly 1 tap per 10k people.
The U.S. "officially" tapped 1490 phones and has a pop. of 280 million... That's about 1 tap per 187k people.
Of course, I'd bet my nest egg that the U.S. does more unofficial taps than Australia, so the real rate is probably something barely less shocking. But fear the day lawmakers point to this and say, "We're not doing enough phone taps!"
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Oh my gawd -- guess what happened to me... (Score:1, Funny)
by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 16, @05:46AM (#4264435)
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Last night I was lying in bed trying to get to sleep when I thought I heard a strange noise coming from the bathroom.
Knowing that I wouldn't be able to doze off until the mystery was solved, I hauled by sad ass out of bed and stumbled down the hall to the "little room"
At first I thought it must just be tinnitus because the sound was really indistinct and seemed to be coming from multiple directions at once.
After a few minutes walking around the bathroom with my hands cupped to my ears I finally traced the source of the noise to the basin.
Yes, those bastard law-enforcement officials -- they'd phoned my tap!
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releif (Score:3, Funny)
by tanveer1979 on Monday September 16, @05:58AM (#4264447)
(User #530624 Info | http://www.geocities.com/tsk1979 | Last Journal: Friday August 23, @02:34AM)
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so ggod in living in a developing country .. our phones dont work half of the time whew ;-)
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but hey ... (/. joke coming ...) (Score:2)
by cascadingstylesheet on Monday September 16, @06:21AM (#4264506)
(User #140919 Info)
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... at least the Aussie's have better high-tech wireless phones than the US ...
Thank you, I'll be here all week ... :) remember to tip your waitress ...
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It's an ancient story. (Score:2)
by Apuleius (ocschwar@nospam.mit.edu) on Monday September 16, @07:16AM (#4264620)
(User #6901 Info | http://www.mit.edu/~ocschwar | Last Journal: Saturday September 01, @03:26AM)
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Whenever a country experiences a surge in crime,
(because of a bad economy or new methods by crooks
or a new street drug) it runs the risk of a
major backlash in the form of draconian punishments,
abolition of civil liberties, and sometimes vigilantism. The backlash never solves the problem,
which means it can repeat itself again and again. The appearance of crack cocaine in America caused the public to tolerate aggressive tactics by the
DEA and then by other TLAs, culminating in Waco.
Europe and Australia now tolerate promiscuous phone tapping. Britain is almost a panopticon now,
and is loosening regulations on psychiatric commitment. Eternal vigilance, folks. Nothing else suffices.
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Monkey See Monkey Do (Score:2)
by Self Bias Resistor (zerosignal@SpamBu ... .subdimension.com) on Monday September 16, @08:00AM (#4264729)
(User #136938 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
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Looks like our little Johnny Howard has been following the lead of the US more than we first imagined. I'd imagine he'll be constructing the Aussie version of the PATRIOT Act next. Depressing and, at the same time, completely unsuprising.
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More great editing by /. (Score:1)
by DirkDaring on Monday September 16, @08:18AM (#4264806)
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"Last year Australian authorities tapped more phones all United States authorities combined."
Good job editors.
Dirk
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Instant revenge against tappers... (Score:2)
by CrazyDuke on Monday September 16, @08:20AM (#4264816)
(User #529195 Info)
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Call some random person...
*ring* *ring* *ring*
"Hello?"
"The secret website is goatse.cx!"
"Huh?"
*click*
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Note the source... (Score:2)
by Goonie (rgmerk at mira dot net) on Monday September 16, @08:31AM (#4264861)
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This report came from FOI requests made by the Opposition (the minority party), who are opposing further extensions to wiretapping laws.
These bills are thus likely to fail in the Senate, as the opposition is opposing the bill and the green-left minor parties that hold the balance of power were *never* going to vote in favour of it.
This is (at last) a somewhat politically courageous action by the opposition, because standing up for civil liberties is rarely politically advantagous and will run the risk of the government accusing them of risking Australia's national security or some such nonsense. Kudos to Labor for actually showing a little backbone.
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Big Brother watching (Score:1)
by Skal Tura on Monday September 16, @08:37AM (#4264884)
(User #595728 Info | http://czn.ath.cx/)
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Big brother watching them, lol, that sucks!
that will lead to even higher demand of crypted communications for criminals(or just for people who want to discuss only with whom they are talking, and not also with some goverment agency) there.
So there would probably be some market for phones crypting you'r talk so that goverment agencies cannot decrypt it, perhaps i should take out my soldering iron and a pile of electronic junk like processors, eeproms, microphone, speaker...
i wonder how easy it would have been to make a phone like that =D perhaps at same time you could implement a button when pressed would mutate your voice also...
That would need a lot of processing power to first translate you'r voice from analogic to digital and incoming voice from digital and analogic and also crypting & decrypting it.
i mean a lot of processing power compared to some pic processors etc... actually it's merely nothing needed but a lot for small electronic gadgets...
perhaps somebody should start making such a device?
I'm glad i don't need to worry about somebody tapping my phone, if i remember right here they need atleast to inform the tapped person that they are tapping...
also there is a market share for devices detecting phone tapping...
Cybernetic Zombie's Network [czn.ath.cx]
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Makes sense to me (Score:1)
by paiute on Monday September 16, @09:03AM (#4265011)
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otherwise we'd have our enemies finding out how those crooked sticks come back when you throw them or how those hollow stick make those cool sounds
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not so bad (Score:1)
by claude_juan on Monday September 16, @09:16AM (#4265093)
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maybe this is naive, but who cares if your phone is tapped? you should be ok with it so long as you have nothing to hide. i know all you paranoid folk out there believe the govt will frame you, but jees. give me a break. if you are clean, just let it go.
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Shouldn't that read.. (Score:2)
by _LORAX_ on Monday September 16, @09:23AM (#4265130)
(User #4790 Info | http://www.snowmoon.com)
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Australia Taps More Phones -LEGALLY- Than Entire U.S.
Since even those in chage say that the number underreported ia on an order or mangitude higher than those reported. These numbers also don't take into account US customs whose records were destroyed in the 9/11 attacks. They are still trying to re-create those records from ancilarry data.
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Tell Me It's Not So (Score:2)
by 4of12 on Monday September 16, @09:37AM (#4265199)
(User #97621 Info | http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Wednesday May 08, @05:12PM)
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As an American, I've always thought of Aussies as being likewise independent, free-thinking and friendly people (Mad Max notwithstanding).
You know, like, "No worries, mate!"
Now I'm feeling bad because I was worried about the evil Ashcroft and Carnivore while my buddies in Oz are enduring much worse!
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Worse than you think! (Score:1)
by SystematicPsycho on Monday September 16, @09:51AM (#4265323)
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Considering that Australia has a population of 20 million, and the U.S has a population of 280 million, that is _alot of tapping. Over here the phone lines are not well maintained, so if you detect a degrading in the quality of your phone calls chances are your being tapped.
It seems to be that Pine Gap [fas.org] is facing the wrong way.
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Stupid title (Score:1)
by ICA on Monday September 16, @09:59AM (#4265376)
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Does anyone else find the title of this article horribly stupid?
Why did they make a point to compare Austrailia to the "entire" United States. Being both countries as they are, I would think a simple comparison would suffice.
The reverse might have made sense. To say something like "State of Florida taps more phones than the entire Eastern hemisphere" would have been interesting.
I know it's a rant, but man I would like headlines to be somewhat relevent...
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Speakfreely? Encrypted Voice Communications? (Score:1)
by linzeal (koatNO@SPAMrhizome.org) on Monday September 16, @10:49AM (#4265723)
(User #197905 Info | http://www.anarchsforlife.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday August 06, @03:58PM)
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Used against 3rd world governments [speakfreely.org] but works equally well against 1st world ones as well.
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er (Score:1)
by skinfitz on Monday September 16, @11:30AM (#4266042)
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Shouldnt that be 20 times more than the US officially taps?
Arn't all international calls routed via satellite into and out of the US are open season as far as tapping is concerned as US law doesn't require a warrant for this type of tap?
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That's because (Score:1)
by acceleriter on Monday September 16, @01:48PM (#4267144)
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there are less phones in the U.S. than in Australia. Remember Echelon? We tap the ones in Australia (legally), then give the information to the Aussies (also legally). They do the same for us. Then both of our foreign intelligence agencies can truthfully say "We don't tap our own citizens' phones."
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The Australia must be the bestest place on Earth! (Score:2)
by Catbeller on Monday September 16, @02:01PM (#4267265)
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Wow! With so many police listening into so many conversations, the crime rate must be nearly zero. How can people do anything wrong if they can be listened to at will!
Except, um, if the people listening in aren't totally honest themselves. Who listening in on the prosecutors and cops? How long until blackmail starts?
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Everybody Knows.... (Score:2)
by Uggy (jim@!Askatasuna!papaya.altamente.com) on Monday September 16, @02:19PM (#4267409)
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Man in Black: Truly you have a dizzing intellect.
Vizini: Wait 'til I get going. Where was I?
Man in Black: Australia.
Vizini: Yes, Australia. And everybody knows Australia is entirely peopled by criminals... and criminals are used to people not trusting them as YOU are not trusted by me. Therefore I can clearly not chose the wine in front of you.
That about do it folks? Can't believe nobody posted this already. *shakes head*
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A revealing comment (Score:2)
by geoswan (swangeo@yahoo.ca) on Monday September 16, @02:21PM (#4267426)
(User #316494 Info | Last Journal: Thursday September 12, @02:46PM)
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Some years ago TVO, Ontario's public educational channel, had a series
on new technology. They devoted one show to surveillance, bugging,
wiretapping. They very interviewed these two different guys.
One was with a guy who sold bug detectors. The other interview was
with a grizzled old cop in Washington DC. He looked like Joe Friday.
The bug-detector salesman kept touting his products, and saying
how good they were at detecting bugs. The grizzled cop kept saying
how difficult it was to be sure you weren't being bugged. Finally
he said:
You can never know when you are being bugged. None of our bugs
has ever been detected. Why we have conducted over 1,000 legal
wiretaps alone.
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Re:Old (Score:1)
by frisket ((ei.liramlis) (ta) (retep)) on Monday September 16, @04:31AM (#4264267)
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Political parties? Well, the US has a precedent :-)
Either they have a lot of reds-under-the-beds paranoiacs, or they're using it in criminal investigations (do they have that many crooks?), or it's become a social necessity for the govmnt.
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Re:This makes sense (Score:1)
by narkotix on Monday September 16, @05:30AM (#4264414)
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and america consists of gun tooting wankers who think that their right to have a gun (in their constitution) is because the king of england (yes i know we have a queen) MIGHT invade.....hows that for paranoia :-)
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Re:This makes sense (Score:1)
by Jondor (gerhard@frappe.xs4all.nl) on Monday September 16, @05:35AM (#4264422)
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But then again, all the other (religiouse) nuts europe wanted to get rit of went to america.. explains a few things too..;-)
(ok, now, where are my asbest undies...)
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New zealand's crime rate (Score:1)
by pommiekiwifruit on Monday September 16, @06:23AM (#4264509)
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This was front page news in Taranaki, New Zealand for days!. Somehow seems less violent than where I live now.
NZ front page news [bbc.co.uk]
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Australia Taps More Phones Than Entire U.S.
