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  An email to CEI over its critique of Linux  
Friday September 20, 2002 - [ 06:35 PM GMT ]   Print this Article
Topic - Advocacy

- From: Grant Gross -
Hello, Declan and Jim:
A couple of points on Jim's rant against Linux and The New York Times editorial this week: Yes, Linux programmers are supported. Most have "day jobs," and some of those are even jobs where they're paid to write Linux or Open Source code.

And yes, companies like IBM have supported Linux (although much of the billion dollars IBM has spent on Linux has gone into its marketing efforts, as opposed to code-writing efforts).

But Linux has survived and grown for several years without huge corporate subsidies. While IBM and other companies have contributed mightily in the past couple of years, Linux and most other Open Source software has a long grassroots history. Much of the Linux movement really is a "folk song army," as Jim puts it.

Corporate support has helped Linux, but it is not necessary "to keep Linux going," as Jim suggests. Linux survived for nearly 10 years without backing from many large companies.

The bigger question is: So what? If IBM and other companies choose to support Linux because they see profit in doing so, what's wrong with that? Sounds like free enterprise to me, and as I understand it, CEI is all for letting the free market work. Or does CEI only support the free market for large corporations like Microsoft? Doesn't a folk song army, supported by a few companies, also have the right to participate in the free market?

In addition, Jim's comparison to Linux as a movement to the dot-com bust is overly simplistic. First, Jim complains that someone has to pay for Linux by supporting it, then he complains that Linux isn't a sustainable business plan. First, he criticizes Linux for not being free -- yes, some Linux companies offer support services -- then he criticizes Linux because giving products away didn't work for dot-coms.

Next: "The code writers will want pay for producing it, which means money must ultimately come from the users somehow." There are a lot of things wrong with that statement. Many of those code writers have been volunteers -- I imagine Jim understands the concept of volunteerism. Jim is thinking of Linux purely as a business model, when Linux has a much longer history as a volunteer project than as a business.

Interestingly enough, The New York Times' editorial didn't advocate Linux as a business model. It just advanced Linux as competition to Microsoft.

Jim's second critique of Linux and the GNU GPL is off target. It's interesting, of course, that Jim's criticism of the GPL mirrors the recent noise coming from Microsoft, a past backer of CEI. Many people have responded to the claims that the GPL is "viral," but let me try to put it in terms free-marketers should be able to understand:

The GPL is a kind of social contract, or even a business contract. GPLed code is free to use, but if you build on it, you have an obligation to contribute your code back to the commons from which you took the code. (And, a reader reminds me, only if you distribute your changes to others.) As you free-marketers like to say, "You can't get something for nothing." There is a price for using GPLed code, and if you'd don't want to pay that price, the choice is simple: Don't use GPLed code, create your own.

Also, Jim paraphrases the GPL as saying: "Thou shalt not charge for this program and its source code shall be public." Yes, most of the time, the source code must be freely available, but Jim, could you please point out where in the GPL it says you can't charge for a GPLed program? If that's the case, those copies of Red Hat and Mandrake Linux I see on the shelves of my local Best Buy violate the GPL.

Free Software Foundation founder Richard Stallman himself tells audiences how he used to charge to send out copies of his Emacs text editor on disk. As you know, Richard wrote the GPL.

Furthermore, Jim implies that it's nearly impossible to write proprietary applications for Linux because of the GPL's "viral" nature. "Writing aps without incorporating some operating system code is difficult," he says. That almost sounds like Microsoft's "can't separate the browser from the OS" position that got the company hauled into federal antitrust court.

The reality is that applications are written all the time without using code from the OS, as evidenced by the hundreds of non-GPLed programs that already run on Linux. (I'm writing this on StarOffice for Linux, which would violate the GPL using Jim's logic.)How have so many independent software developers managed to write thousands of apps for Microsoft's closed-source OSes, if they couldn't do so without using part of the operating system code?

Finally, Jim suggests that governments should stay away from Linux, because "incentives fueling the Linux movement are not necessarily those required for long-term production of software suited for the public as well as the nerds." Again, Jim contradicts himself. If companies like IBM are pouring billions of dollars into Linux, that feels an awful lot like the foundation for the long-term production of software.

Thanks for listening,
Grant


 

( Post a new comment )

feel better?      (#26980)
by schmidm77 on 2002.09.20 14:18   | User Info |


Finally, governments should not treat this as an arena for industrial policy

Where in that sentance is it inferred that governments should not use open source software? The only policy that I hear being advocated from both sides is that "governments should NOT be allowed to use OSS/proprietary software", and those positions are both equally wrong and are anti-competition.

Well at least you get to pat yourself on the back for finding another one of those EVIL Linux haters.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

parents just dont understand      (#26985)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.09.20 14:26


A second problem is the creation of applications for Linux. The General
Public License that controls the program s distribution can be paraphrased
as thou shalt not charge for this program and its source code shall be
public. This license is also viral; if you write an ap for Linux, and
incorporate any code covered by the GPL, then your ap is also subject to
the GPL, and it too becomes open source and free.


This is just ignorance, or worse, just more FUD.

If you write an app for ANY OS, and incorporate any code covered by the GPL, then you app is also subject to the GPL. Duh. Plenty of companies make non-GPL software for Linux. And charge for it. Gee.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

CEI's misunderstanding      (#26995)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.09.20 14:59


CEI is an inappropriately named organisation. It is dedicated to supporting the unfettered right of big businesses to entrench themselves. Its "scientific attacks" on environmental regulation don't fool even junior high science students and are pathetic. So it is not surprising that CEI shd try to put down Linux. Since when did the CEI start dictating what software is good and worth supporting? I thought the very idea of competitive enterprise was to let the market decide. Now when the governments of Germany, China or India decide to mandate the use of Linux they are deciding to do so as [customers] and not governments. If the Federal Government decides that it does not want to spend millions paying a Microsoft tax it does so as a [customer] a constituent of the market. CEI shd not make a fool of itself by prying into areas that it has no understanding of.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Not quite, Grant      (#27001)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.09.20 15:17


if you build on it, you have an obligation to contribute your code back from the commons from which you took the code

Only if you distribute your changes.

-fp
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Miss on reasons for contributing, and effect      (#27018)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.09.20 16:51


This article really misses on reasons for contributing, and their effects.

One major reason, hinted at by IBM trying to stick it to Microsoft and Sun, is to create competition in complementary businesses. If IBM is a true software service company, it will support any software irrespective of who owns it. It wants to marginalize the business of selling software. That makes supporting software EVERYTHING. A great way to marginalize sales is pouring a billion dollars into GPL software. Anyone can use the created intellectual property, as long as they use it in GPL'd software. It is enough to merely create a strong competitor to Microsoft and Sun, and then the focus shifts from "Who's software should we buy?" to "How can we support this software?". Also, the software seller has less leverage in the support arena. Support companies WANT to marginalize the software sales business, and any competent economist should realize that.

Other reasons, such as the motivations from governments, are to create ways of information exchange that can be supported by any software company. Again, the government is interested in getting tasks done - if it can marginalize the software sales, it WILL save a lot of money.

But the net effect is what is lost most. GPL'd software never dies. Its pieces can be picked up and re-forged into new GPL software. The community intellectual property grows with time. So, from a perspective of someone that desires competition in software, supporting GPL software development is a great idea.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Thats just funny      (#27021)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.09.20 17:01


I wrote programs in the MS environment and now I am moving to Linux. Did I get paid for my programs? NO, I program for the benefit of schools and nonprofit organizations, I never have sold a program and probably never will. I have a real job for money, and I prefer the whole nonprofit thing to money grubbing lunatics who think they have a say in my life.
So if everyone expects money from their source or programs why would I work nonprofit angles? I would answer that, but I think it may contain some inappropriate language.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Debate      (#27025)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.09.20 17:13


I dare CIE to stand behind the words of their consultant! They can't do it! His document not
just shows he is ignorant, it shows he is a liar!
Yes that's right sir you are a liar! I can prove you are a liar and cannot win. You are simply a liar! It is not a question of opinion. You stated facts that are not true. You are a liar.

We will soon start petitioning the people that pay your check that you are a liar.

ATTENTION: Let's start an investigation of this liar and expose him. Let's see what we can dig up
on him and let's make sure the world and anyone buying his consultation knows his advice cannot be trusted because he is a liar.

Also, to the liar... I will be glad to debate each of the points you lied about. You are lying
in them.

You liar!!!!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re:Debate by Anonymous Reader 2002.09.20 17:23
      Re:Debate by Anonymous Reader 2002.09.20 17:33
        Re:Debate by Anonymous Reader 2002.09.20 17:50
          Re:Debate by Anonymous Reader 2002.09.20 18:05

What I write      (#27043)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.09.20 18:31


Besides the consideration of closed vs. open vs. free code, there is a consideration of what is being obscured such as plenty of programmers who refuse to produce on certain OS's.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

If linux is CANCER, WINDOWS is AIDS      (#27078)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.09.21 0:03


My school has spent 75 grand only for MS Windows and they have spent all the budget put aside for learning AIDS for this!
so if MS windows is bought instead learning AIDS.
isn't WINDOWS "AIDS"!!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Jims Perspective      (#27091)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.09.21 1:20


It would appear from Jims commentary that he only just recently heard about Linux. His perspective would be valid for anyone who is late arriving to the party but indefensible for anyone else.

That's okay ... Ballmer just figured out that he can't beat Linux on TCO. And, after nearly 30 years, Gates just woke up to the fact that his software is inherently insecure. Will the real Ichabod Crane please stand up?

Lots of folks have been snoozing. Go on back to sleep guys ... it's all a bad dream, it's all just a bad dream and Mommy is right here.

With herring breath.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Don't make any mistake about it.      (#27093)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.09.21 1:57


Most open source work is unpaid work.

Not only that but it kills paid for work. Even if a open source programmer makes open source that do not compete with his day jobs products it will compete with someone elses, and on the same time, someone else will make open source software to kill his or hers day job.

People seems to have serious problems seeing the whole picture.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Oh my! Seriously!      (#27121)
by michaelinnc84 on 2002.09.21 10:46   | User Info | Home Page |


What people don't understand about Linux, GPL, and all of the open source software out there is that we live in our own little world. In here we all work together, building our own internet, making open source free and programing for free. People like the author of that article are in another world, living for money!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
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