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IBM Dropping Laptop Linux Support
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Oh who cares (Score:1, Funny)
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20, @02:04PM (#3737577)
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IBM are a bunch of graffiti spraying vandals anyway.
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Very stupid thinking... (Score:2)
by Glock27 on Thursday June 20, @02:04PM (#3737578)
(User #446276 Info)
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on IBM's part.
"Linux is our flagship technology going forward! Quick, let's cancel it on our sexiest products!"
What a great way to torpedo enthusiasm in the techie community... :-p
Time for someone to set up a petition page...
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OSX pretty much decided the laptop game for me... (Score:1)
by T.Monk on Thursday June 20, @02:05PM (#3737580)
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I just about creamed myself first time i saw a SSH terminal open up on one of those oh too sweet looking iBooks...
Kinda sad about the thinkpads tho, IBM has been doing it so right for so long, it's a shame to see them discontinue support. Makes me wonder if they're going to do something else with linux on those laptops, given their recent billion dollar commitment to linux..
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Interesting (Score:3, Interesting)
by sheepab on Thursday June 20, @02:05PM (#3737585)
(User #461960 Info | http://www.thrillhouse.com/)
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An older article here [slashdot.org] has the developers of their open source devision saying...
IBM Kernel Hackers:
All of the people in our group and most in the LTC have Thinkpads for their daily development and run Linux on them (I'm writing this on one as I sit in my apartment). There may not be as much corporate support there as you want, but there is plenty of grass-roots support. We had to learn all the quirks to get Linux installed and get all of the little things working (just like you). I've always wished that we shared more of this information, but there are usually people who are farther ahead than we are. I've uploaded the meager information that we put together during a meeting once. If you're curious, take a look: http://www.sr71.net/slashdot/thinkpad/linux-deskto p
People don't buy many small computers just because they will run Linux (the geek population just isn't that large). People do, however, blow large chunks of cash on big machines just to run Linux. Mom-and-Pop can almost always undercut IBM on prices for small machines, and geeks are thrifty. You don't have to sell many million dollar machines to justify being involved in Linux development.
Why dont they just start working on Linux for Laptops?
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- Re:Interesting by OUSpirit (Score:2) Thursday June 20, @02:17PM
- Agreed... by sterno (Score:2) Thursday June 20, @02:30PM
- Re:Interesting by mark_lybarger (Score:1) Thursday June 20, @02:22PM
- 1 reply
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stupid IBM (Score:2, Insightful)
by gkbarr (gbarr@keenCOLAe.edu minus caffeine) on Thursday June 20, @02:06PM (#3737592)
(User #124078 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
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ThinkPads (T-series in particular) are the best notebooks on the market, period. This is disturbing that they have discontinued LINUX support, especially in light on their adoption of LINUX on workstations/servers. Doesn't make a lot of sense, really.
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- Re:stupid IBM by zangdesign (Score:2) Thursday June 20, @02:12PM
- Re:stupid IBM by eyepeepackets (Score:1) Thursday June 20, @02:20PM
- 1 reply
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Tis a sad day... (Score:1)
by DaPhoenix (rayb.kod@net) on Thursday June 20, @02:06PM (#3737593)
(User #318174 Info)
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...when one of our largest backers pulls linux support from their quality laptops... Keith! Chalk my ThinkPad before you go! :(
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After the IBM kernel hackers interview... (Score:1)
by Papineau on Thursday June 20, @02:06PM (#3737599)
(User #527159 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
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From one of the answer, concerning Linux support of Thnkpads:
There may not be as much corporate support there as you want
I think it's a bit of an understatement. I don't know what the unedited part said, but what went through is dead on.
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Why? (Score:1)
by the_real_tigga (nephros@u[ ]s.sf.net ['ser' in gap]) on Thursday June 20, @02:07PM (#3737605)
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Does anyone have a clue why they did it? After all (and as the poster hints at), linux support does in fact *help* selling ThinkPads.
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- Re:Why? by NanoGator (Score:2) Thursday June 20, @02:13PM
- Re:Why? by the_real_tigga (Score:1) Thursday June 20, @02:36PM
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Good Thing (tm) (Score:3, Insightful)
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20, @02:07PM (#3737607)
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IBM also said it was going to include Generic Unix support rather than Linux only (scroll down). This means, they are embracing the entire spectrum of free Unix OS's instead of just Linux (Which IS A BONUS). They would be supporting OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, Darwin, OpenCLT, WindRiver RT, OpenDOS, Linux (no distro specific). Frankly, it was weird seeing IBM saying they only support RedHat Linux (Linux is Linux whatever distro runs it, and at hardware level this shouldn't have mattered, AFAIK most IBM use was at hardware level). This IS A GOOD THING.
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Laptops != the future of Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
by why-is-it on Thursday June 20, @02:08PM (#3737610)
(User #318134 Info | http://userfriendly.org)
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It seems to me that IBM is looking at Linux as an operating system that belongs on server grade hardware and beyond, not on desktops or laptops. There probably are not enough people using Linux on their laptops to justify the time spent supporting it.
They used to have Thinkpads that ran AIX. Some of the SysAdmins I know at IBM used to prefer them for on-site troubleshooting at the server farms since it was UNIX end-to-end (to the extent that AIX is UNIX anyways). But someone decided that it was not worth having the product line and they were scrapped.
Too bad, but this sounds like more of the same...
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as long as... (Score:4, Insightful)
by nick-less on Thursday June 20, @02:08PM (#3737613)
(User #307628 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
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...they don't stop giving out hardware documentation, I can't see any real problem here - most other company's don't found Linux development either and people still buy their hardware...
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IBM embracing Linux? (Score:1)
by slavemowgli on Thursday June 20, @02:08PM (#3737619)
(User #585321 Info | http://24-7slave.net/)
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Dropping support for Linux on their laptops is very strange decision for IBM to make IMO, considering their overall interest in and sponsoring of the development of Linux.
I wonder how this goes together...
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Best Keyboard on the Market (Score:1)
by addikt10 on Thursday June 20, @02:09PM (#3737621)
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I love my Thinkpad, as it has the best keyboard of any laptop that I tried. I use the built in keyboard enough that I've worn the texturing off half the letters.
There are many support pages and "rings" around the web for thinkpads,and I hope that at least the IBM design teams think about non-MS Operating systems when producing future thinkpads, unlike the TP600 modem debacle.
It'll be a tough one to replace when the time comes.
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IBM sacking Linux developers (Score:2)
by brejc8 on Thursday June 20, @02:09PM (#3737623)
(User #223089 Info | http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~brejc8/ | Last Journal: Thursday June 20, @10:02AM)
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Strange that I posted this story [slashdot.org] earlyer.
Anyway the inquirer had a little more info [theinquirer.net] and opinion.
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Wrong attitude... (Score:3, Interesting)
by NanoGator on Thursday June 20, @02:10PM (#3737629)
(User #522640 Info | http://slashdot.org/~NanoGator/journal/ | Last Journal: Monday May 06, @03:16AM)
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"If it stops being compatible, my next laptop won't be a ThinkPad. Too bad, because the machines are solid. "
I dunno if that's the attitude I'd have. The reason you buy a Laptop from IBM is their manufacturing compatibility and support. (support meaning they'll replace a defective component...)
If there's an icompatibility with Linux and one of these Laptops, then people should rush to fix it. The reason I'm saying this is that corps who buy these laptops aren't going to be worried about Linux until they really really need it. It'd be a lot easier for everybody if the information on how to make Linux work on an incompatible laptop were easy to find for the non-Linux initiated.
I'd have been a Linux user 6 months ago if I could have gotten it to work on my laptop. Unfortunately, I couldn't find what I needed to fix it, so it got Windows 2000 instead. It'll be a while before I have the free time to pursue that again.
I'm thinking of the Linux community as a whole, here. I can understand somebody saying "This laptop won't do me any good if it doesn't wrong what I need", hell I'd have the same attitude. I'm just thinking that if everybody says that, then this will always be a Microsoft world.
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This was posted in the last IBM thread (Score:1)
by qurob on Thursday June 20, @02:10PM (#3737630)
(User #543434 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
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Right here [slashdot.org] on Slashdot!
Who would have thought?
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Business sense. (Score:2, Insightful)
by AntipodesTroll on Thursday June 20, @02:10PM (#3737632)
(User #552543 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
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Good business sense, at that.
As displeasing as it might be to the faithfull, it dosent make much sense bottom-line to invest a lot of money in this area. It dosent nessesarily mean that Thinkpads will become horrors of proprietory that will become useless for Linux, it just means spending less money supporting a free OS that honestly manages to support itself well enough anyway. (The Linux work isnt adding value to IBM laptops for the average punter, to the point where they will decide on a Thinkpad over an Inspiron.)
Then there is the fact that IBM may cash-cow their x86 laptop business anyway in preparation to sell it off, rather like their hard disk business.
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Server Group "resource action"? (Score:2)
by peterdaly (petedalyNO@SPAMix.netcom.com) on Thursday June 20, @02:10PM (#3737635)
(User #123554 Info | http://www.starvingmind.net/tech.php)
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>>as part of IBM's recent Server Group "resource action."
Does that mean IBM is trimming all non-essintial non-server based roles? I have wondered for a long time why IBM is still in the PC business. It seems like they don't sell very many end user machines. While it is common is some circles to have Thinkpad laptops, I have not seen one myself in a couple years.
I have never though it was really a business IBM wanted to be in. I wonder if this means maybe they agree.
-Pete
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Probably mend IBM is going to stop designing lapto (Score:3, Interesting)
by zulux on Thursday June 20, @02:10PM (#3737638)
(User #112259 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
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IBM designs their laptops and either makes them or has someone else make them to their design. So somebody probably got the bright idea to just buy random Taiwan made laptops and slap an IBM logo on them - they think that this will reduce costs and increase competitiveness with new designs intoduced monthly.
The only have to look at thir Aptiva line of desktops to see where this stratigy will go - their good name will carry a few customers for a while, but in the end, nobody will pay a premium IBM price for a non-IBM product with an IBM sticker slaped on the front.
Well to be fair, it look lie IBM did design the plastic bezel for the Aptivas.
What does this have to do with Linux? We'll getting Linux to run of crappy hardware with Win-Modems and no name audio chips is a pain in the butt - if IBM was to suppot Linux, assuming they are going where I think they are going, they would have to pay a lot of money to get it done right.
Eithr that or the Microsoft OEM contract is up for review.....
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Simple solution.... (Score:2)
by Christianfreak (christian_freak@yahoo.com) on Thursday June 20, @02:10PM (#3737644)
(User #100697 Info | http://nakedpicc.com/)
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The Linux community right now doesn't really need a whole lot of support. If IBM would use hardware that already has decent and proven drivers in their laptops then there isn't too much to complain about, you can install Linux and be happy.
Now of course if they make you buy it in the beginning with Windoze then we have some reason to complain.
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Isn't This What The Open Source Movement Is For?? (Score:2)
by EXTomar on Thursday June 20, @02:14PM (#3737675)
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Okay so IBM doesn't have enough money to fund creating drivers for Linux for Thinkpads. Fair enough since resources are finite. However isn't one of the best features of Open Source projects is to get people who are interested in contributing to the project?
Why does IBM need to hard dedicate manpower to Thinkpad driver writing? IBM can just provide open hardware specs(assuming they don't violate some NDA from inside or 3rd parties), a little TLC and feedback from a maintained ML, and let people who are modivated to get stuff working do their thing. Heck even IBM can maintain the CVS repositories if they want.
The point is that although it would be handy to have IBM leading driver development for Thinkpads or whatever hardware, it isn't exactly necessary. IBM can just as easily, and for a lot less bucks, forster a community that will help support them and themselves.
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standards based Design of next Gen thinkpads (Score:1)
by addikt10 on Thursday June 20, @02:15PM (#3737680)
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Most of the stuff that was "special" about laptops has been standardized, including power management (APM and ACPI) internal peripherals (mini-pci).
The biggest thing now is to keep in mind which video and audio chipsets are going to be compatible, which is easier to do in the design stage than the support stage later on.
I love my T series thinkpad, and as long as future designs take those chipset issues into consideration, then I'll stick with the thinkpad for a long, long time.
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Obligatory basketball joke (Score:1)
by IndependentVik on Thursday June 20, @02:17PM (#3737694)
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I guess linux on the laptop is no longer part of the triangle offense?
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Support?? (Score:1)
by jzarzosa on Thursday June 20, @02:17PM (#3737698)
(User #584990 Info | http://jz.unixcab.org/)
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Honestly!? Who (in the nix community) actually needed support from Big Blue? Maybe there was the occasional question/comment/complaint, but nothing that couldn't be resolved in a short time scouring the web.
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That's fine with me ... (Score:2)
by Lazy Jones on Thursday June 20, @02:18PM (#3737708)
(User #8403 Info | http://pobox.com/~mjy)
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... as long as they provide all the necessary information to Open Source developers.
Ah yes, and they should also stop using components made by companies who don't provide information.
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Well... (Score:2)
by rutledjw (rutledjw@yahoo.com) on Thursday June 20, @02:18PM (#3737710)
(User #447990 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
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IBM may be removing active support, but if they use Linux-compatible HW &| release driver specs, that's almost as good! Isn't it?
Obviously having active support is great, but I'll take what I can get. Granted, I'm biased. I have a 570 that runs great with both Slack and Mandrake. Sound and the whole nine yards.
In this day and age of cost-cutting it really isn't a suprise. Only geeks (like those found here) are going to use *nix on a laptop anyway and most of us can handle our own installs and tweaking.
The only place I can see this biting IBM in the @ss is in the case of Europe where we have France giving a major contract out to Mandrake [newsforge.com] and the stories about
Linux PCs selling in Scandinavia [newsforge.com]. Even though
Walmart is going to start selling Linux loaded PCs soon [newsforge.com]. Despite the Walmart decision, I don't think we'll have the same enthusiasm (as we're seeing in Europe) in the US for a while.
Hope I'm wrong... Either way, unless these kinds of efforts continue to grow, IBM probably made a good BUSINESS decision, even though I (we?) may not like it.
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- Re:Well... by JCCyC (Score:2) Thursday June 20, @02:35PM
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Wait a minute... (Score:2)
by --daz-- on Thursday June 20, @02:18PM (#3737711)
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I thought that the newer versions of Linux had awesome hardware support "better than Windows XP" I've heard.
Why, then, is it so hard to get Linux running on a ThinkPad which, as I understand, has fairly standard hardware?
I thought the days of spending days trying to get Linux running on common hardware were over!
(this is not intended as a troll, I'm genuininely interested. Is it because Linux hardware detection isn't quite there yet, or is it because IBM is using weird hardware, or is it something else altogether?)
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what a shame (Score:1)
by z_gringo (z_gringo&hotmail,com) on Thursday June 20, @02:20PM (#3737724)
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Those machines are very nice, definately my favorite laptops. I have a couple of older thinkpads in my collection. (not that old) I never actually knew that the thinkpads were supported by IBM for linux. I wish I had known. Nevertheless, I haven't yet had the opportunity to install linux on one, although I am planning to do that this month. It will be a 600x which I have just purchased a new HD for. I'm glad to know that it *might* go smoothly.
does anyone know which distro IBM was supporting. The article didn't mention it.
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Economics of tech support (Score:1)
by l33t-gu3lph1t3 (arch_angel16@NOSpAm.hotmail.com) on Thursday June 20, @02:20PM (#3737725)
(User #567059 Info | http://projectx.gamerznet.com/)
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It may well be a situation where IBM would like to provide support, and is able to provide the manpower to making the drivers necessary to make the notebook line Linux compatible. However, one must realize that there is a difference between writing a set of drivers for a product, and actually being accountable for them. My bet is that IBM would rather use its resources in more efficient tasks than supporting such a small user base.
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...because the machines are solid. (Score:1)
by 0xbaadf00d on Thursday June 20, @02:21PM (#3737733)
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Yes, and very heavy too ;)
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what does it matter? (Score:1)
by tralfamador on Thursday June 20, @02:22PM (#3737735)
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i've been using redhat on my thinkpads for a while now. from redhat 5.2 to 7.3 and i haven't needed a lick of support from them anyway. redhat and the rest of the community have done their own damn good job of making it better and easy. if only ibm would stop putting these wack ass video and audio chipsets in them, it would be too painful.
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ThinkPad Hardware (Score:1)
by lionchild on Thursday June 20, @02:22PM (#3737742)
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There pretty much seems to be 2 camps when it comes to IBM and their ThinkPad laptops. Those of us who love them, and (for me) are a bit bigoted. And those who really don't care for them at all.
I'm an ex-IBMer, and when I really got to handle them, even the ones that were broken, I was hooked on them. Now all that has nothing to do with runing Linux on the platform, but as I looked around for something compairable...I couldn't find anything, save maybe a Toshiba.
I won't use anything that has a cheapo trackpad in it. I'll use the pointing stick, or a track ball, the trackpads just suck for me. I wish Apple had the trackpoint as an option, opposed to the trackpad. They'd be an interesting alternative to the ThinkPad.
Well, I suppose the bottom like is that when it comes to laptops, you get what you pay for. And at IBM, you pay a good chunk of change for them!
It'll be sad to see IBM turn it's back on a solid customer base, even if it's not a -HUGE- one. But, you also have to keep in mind, that if IBM is asked to do a $100k project, they turn it down. It's too small.
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Dude... (Score:1)
by bsdparasite on Thursday June 20, @02:22PM (#3737749)
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You're gettin a DELL! Linux community has always had little support for laptops. This is not something new. I am surprised that IBM had a division supporting Linux to begin with!
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I wanted to buy one... (Score:2)
by Steveftoth on Thursday June 20, @02:26PM (#3737779)
(User #78419 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
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but I couldn't find a link to it on their site. Even used their search engine. So where can you buy a laptop that is linux-certified. I just want a laptop that I only have to spend like an hour to get running 100% as opposed to like 20.
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damnit. (Score:1)
by BrainInAJar (error--404.shaw@ca) on Thursday June 20, @02:29PM (#3737799)
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I *JUST* bought an old thinkpad 760dx (used of course). Now how am I supposed to get the soundcard working?
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Once again it looks like.... (Score:1)
by Lord_Slepnir on Thursday June 20, @02:31PM (#3737816)
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It's Better Manually (IBM) -c'mon, think about it....-
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Best Notebook for Running UNIX... (Score:3)
by toupsie on Thursday June 20, @02:32PM (#3737820)
(User #88295 Info | http://www.junkscience.com/)
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For the rich guys [apple.com] and for the poor guys [apple.com]. As a bonus, you don't have to hang your in shame saying you run a "Unix-like" operating system. With these, you get the real thing...
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One step backwards...but... (Score:2)
by Nijika on Thursday June 20, @02:32PM (#3737821)
(User #525558 Info | http://mon.ath.cx/)
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But then again IBM Thinkpads have a long history of being the choice for people who wanted a solid Linux or FreeBSD laptop. I'd -still- buy a ThinkPad, I just hope you can buy them sans OS now or something?
They are freakin' rock solid.
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so what? (Score:1)
by yanyan on Thursday June 20, @02:34PM (#3737838)
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I don't think it's such a big deal that IBM is dropping their laptop Linux support, so long as IBM doesn't do anything that would prevent Linux from running reliably on their laptops, i.e., hiding hardware details that are critical to stable operation. I've been running Slackware with stock kernels on a T20 (with a "Designed for Windows 98/2000" sticker on it) for about 8 months now with no problems whatsoever. Zero crashes. Even if IBM drops this support, i think users would still be able to get Linux to run on their IBM laptops because that is their OS of choice.
Still, it would be nicer to have some kind of "official" support from IBM to give additional incentive to those considering Linux on laptops. More incentive == more users.
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IBM Dropping Laptop Linux Support
