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Free Software Inflates BSA's Piracy Claims
The Almighty BuckPosted by timothy on Wednesday July 24, @04:00AM
from the vergin'-on-subversion dept.
crazney writes: "According to this article in The Age, the BSA do not count the effect of free software when calculating piracy rates. The article suggests that free software has made piracy statistics look worse and hence encourages governments to create harsher laws ... Could someone pass The BSA a cluebat?"

 

 
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<  Tech-Interview Riddles | Bruce Perens Plans On-Stage DMCA Violation  >
Free Software Inflates BSA's Piracy Claims | Log in/Create an Account | Top | 312 comments | Search Discussion
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Cluebat? (Score:2)
by AndyChrist on Wednesday July 24, @04:06AM (#3942962)
(User #161262 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
That suggests there is salvageable grey matter there. Might I suggest a LART?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Cluebat? by umm qasr (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @04:17AM
    • Re:Cluebat? by a_n_d_e_r_s (Score:3) Wednesday July 24, @04:37AM
    • Re:Cluebat? by IXI (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @08:09PM
  • Re:Cluebat? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @05:04AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Cluebat? by zdzichu (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @05:27AM
    • Re:Cluebat? by undef24 (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @11:48AM
      • Re:Cluebat? by zdzichu (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @12:04PM
  • Re:Cluebat? by mpe (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @09:37PM
Thats because the BSA isn't out to serve you... (Score:5, Insightful)
by RAruler on Wednesday July 24, @04:12AM (#3942973)
(User #11862 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
The BSA is exactly that, a Business Software Alliance. It doesn't serve the end user, it serves the corporations, the difference between this and other 'agencies' is that it makes no attempt to hide this. The BSA supports draconian measures like the DMCA, they'd probably like even stricter legislation. They represent corporate greed, they 'blackmail' companies into paying for huge site licenses to cover all the workstations and then some, or face a 'software audit' in which they'll no doubt find some violations. Have a 100 machine site license and a hundred machines, but just bought that new desktop for the boss? Lost the paperwork for the server in the corner?

Tobacco companies fund studies that find that Ciggarette smoking is less dangerous than playing golf in a thunderstorm, the BSA fudges facts to make Pirates seem like the scum of the Earth. The music industry and the 'software' industry have yet to realize that inflated prices lead to inflated piracy. Personally, i'm of the mind that if you make money with software, you should purchase that software. Some companies are alright with this as well, think of the thousands of script kiddies with their pirated versions of photoshop, they were never going to buy it in the first place.. Adobe cares about that printshop, or the graphics design place.. and most of these places wouldn't touch a pirated version of Photoshop with a ten-foot pole. They don't need the BSA to police them, at best the BSA makes a huge hassle, people decide that paying thousands of dollars a year to Microsoft for a site license is insane and switch to something free, many times open-source. Their draconian policies and scare tactics have probably won more converts than a slick red hat ad.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re:Thats because the BSA isn't out to serve you... (Score:5, Interesting)
    by Billly Gates on Wednesday July 24, @05:10AM (#3943079)
    (User #198444 Info)
    "The BSA supports draconian measures like the DMCA, they'd probably like even stricter legislation"

    Do you know this for a fact?

    The BSA and the SPA are not the same as the mpaa. For example I know the SPA is very anti-Microsoft which I find surprising. They are also very pro technology and are probably against the dmca. Remember that software companies do not like closed computers unless they are in the entertainment sector.

    Here goes my karma( gulp).

    I know they sound really evil and are unpopular but they have a right to protect software companies. Remember that whether you like it or not software companies need to be paid and you cannot pirate or steal their work. This is especially true for corporations. Script kiddies are far from their minds. The BSA wont be slamming down your door anytime soon for bootlegging like the mpaa plans to, but corporations need to pay for the software they use. Especially if they can afford it. Using someone else’s software without compensation is stealing. I know many of you reading this are college students who are poor and are scoffing at this but realize that hundreds of programmers at these software companies need a paycheck. How would you like it if your employer only partially compensated you for writing code?

    All that the BSA does is make sure the software companies are adequately compensated for their particular licenses. They do not have the intention of ripping off the public. To them if a software company is stupid enough to over charge then it’s the software company’s problem and not theirs. For example Oracle has ridiculously expensive and outrageous pricing. Guess what? They no longer even have %50 marketshare anymore. SQL Server, Mysql, and DB2 are catching up.

    If you think its too expensive or the license is outrages, then don't buy it. Purchase Linux or cheaper alternatives. I oppose piracy and I believe piracy is hurting free software rather then helping it. Borland as well as Linux would have greater marketshare if people stopped pirated Visual Studio and Windows. Remember that its not greed when a software company overcharges. Its stupidity. Oracle is a prime example of that.

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Re:Thats because the BSA isn't out to serve you... by Boiling_point_ (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @07:29AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • There's the question of motivation... (Score:5, Informative)
      by leonbrooks (sd@leon.brooks.fdns.net) on Wednesday July 24, @07:49AM (#3943370)
      (User #8043 Info | http://plug.linux.org.au/~leonb/)
      They do not have the intention of ripping off the public.

      That's debatable. What isn't debatable is that the vast majority of their income is derived from the huge fines etc that they levy even if their victim then buys a site licence.

      The motivation is all wrong: the BSA (and in Oz, the BSAA) stand to make more from hurting people than from helping software companies.

      Here in Oz at least, when they send an audit demand, the correct answer is `ummm...' followed by some hurried quick checking. If the checking ain't too disastrous, you proceed to `OK, send your guys around when you're ready' - you see, the EULA gives them the right to audit, not the right to force you to audit.

      If they do bother to come around, you make everything as difficult as possible, e.g. by only allowing them to audit a machine when the user is present (privacy regulations, you see), then arranging for a skeleton staff when they do arrive so that the minimum number of computers are available for checking, and make finding out who `owns' a computer as difficult as possible. Meanwhile, all the time, so sorry, wish we could hurry things along a little but can't break these rules.

      Depending on your situation, you should be able to cut them down to six computers a day or less. Over 3 working man-weeks to audit a hundred-screen shop. Make them earn their fines. And keep harping on about your reliable Linux servers, your bulletproof OpenBSD network machines, and how you're testing Linux Terminal Server technology for your desktops and wondering whether it's worthwhile cutting over to it...

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Re:Thats because the BSA isn't out to serve you... by bass_miologics (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @09:18AM
    • The Exception by extrasolar (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @09:22AM
        Re:The Exception (Score:4, Insightful)
        by MrResistor (petehoff@pacbell . n et) on Wednesday July 24, @04:00PM (#3946814)
        (User #120588 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
        And what about in third world countries. It sounds like they can not even install a proprietary operating system, simply because the price is not adjusted to their economy. No wonder piracy is such a large problem there. I see no ethical problem here, either.

        Many third world countries have no copyright law, and so discussions of piracy are totally inappropriate there. Without copyright there is no piracy, regardless of what is actually happening. This is another way that the BSA, et al, distort the truth of piracy. They list all this activity going on in countries that have no copyright law and call it piracy.

        Anyway, just a thought I figured I should throw into the mix.

        [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Yes, we do have proof . . . by SimplyCosmic (Score:3) Wednesday July 24, @09:52AM
    • Re:Thats because the BSA isn't out to serve you... by ChaosDiscordSimple (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @11:32AM
    • Re: um actually they are, I know.... by grumpyclam (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @03:14PM
    • Re:Thats because the BSA isn't out to serve you... by jtshaw (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @09:18PM
    • 5 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Thats because the BSA isn't out to serve you... by jsse (Score:3) Wednesday July 24, @05:17AM
  • We could server ourselves by fferreres (Score:3) Wednesday July 24, @06:29AM
  • Tobacco companies (offtopic) by oliverthered (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @06:57AM
    • Re:Thats because the BSA isn't out to serve you... (Score:5, Informative)
    by Lord_Slepnir on Wednesday July 24, @08:21AM (#3943478)
    (User #585350 Info)
    they 'blackmail' companies into paying for huge site licenses to cover all the workstations and then some, or face a 'software audit'

    I can personally testify to this. My company, a fabric manufacturer with sites worldwide, was recently approached by Microsoft with an offer for a 'maintainence plan'. Since we have a full IT team, we didn't need it. A week later an e-mail appears in our CIO's mailbox saying that we're being audited by Microsoft. Now every morning, he walks into work and says "Alright, what can we do today to get rid of more windows boxes".

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Thats because the BSA isn't out to serve you... by rushiferu (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @10:20AM
  • Re:Thats because the BSA isn't out to serve you... by gad_zuki! (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @06:01PM
  • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
Go BSA! (Score:2, Insightful)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 24, @04:16AM (#3942982)
I think I read it in some /. comment a while ago - Shouldn't people be encouraging the BSA (as long as they're not lying)? The reason everyone uses proprietary data formats and protocols is because 90% of the world runs on warez copies of MS Office or whatnot. If people had to pay for that cr&p, joe public wouldn't think it's such a good deal anymore.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Go BSA! by yatest5 (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @04:33AM
      Re:Go BSA! (Score:4, Interesting)
      by fferreres on Wednesday July 24, @04:54AM (#3943051)
      (User #525414 Info | http://www.arrancar.com/)
      Yes and No.

      Yes. Also, people lets Word before they even find htier first job. Of course, that may mean the use Word because that's what their employer will value.

      No. Your boss uses Word and probably has a pirated copy at home. Every office runs Word because they know employees (high or low rank) will be able t pirate Office to make the homework.

      So that leads me to the conclusion that if NOBODY ever had even the slightest chance of getting an Office without actually paying for it, you'll have like (my guess) 80% of the computer-litetare US population outright complaining about this overpriced piece of crap being imposed to them.

      BUT OF COURSE ... MS knows they can easily charge "corporation X" and not "citizen X", so they don't ever "audit" peoples homes. But they will when they evaluate they can get value added from it (ie: discounted cash flow triggered by anti-piracy@home [including all side effects such as riots, bad PR, etc.]). If they haven't done so, it's because they are better off charging corps than everyone.

      And you can't (sucessfully) argue that Openoffice would greatly benefit from BSA starting an large scale antipiracy crusade at companies AND home users.
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Re:Go BSA! by z_gringo (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @05:12AM
      • Re:Go BSA! by _Sprocket_ (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @05:31AM
    • Re:Go BSA! by kghougaard (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @05:55AM
    • Re:Go BSA! by johnnyb (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @09:18AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Go BSA! by antrik (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @08:34AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • numbers by leuk_he (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @09:37AM
I'm not sure how all this adds up (Score:5, Insightful)
by KNicolson on Wednesday July 24, @04:18AM (#3942990)
(User #147698 Info)
The article says:

"We ask respondents to choose from a very long list of specific software titles, reporting which ones they regularly use. This means we identify Microsoft Word versus, say, WordPerfect," says Metafacts principal analyst Dan Ness.

Open-source competitors are not included as alternatives, he says.

So, do they assume that because x% of users say they don't have a licenced copy of one of Word/WordPerfect/etc, then some percent of this percentage MUST have an unlicenced copy of one of the above? What about people who just don't use Word Processors, or Spreadsheets, or whatever? Seems to be some fishy maths going on here! The article doesn't clarify what's going on.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Doesn't surprise me... (Score:5, Funny)
by evbergen on Wednesday July 24, @04:20AM (#3942995)
(User #31483 Info | http://www.e-advies.info/)
... given that the BSA has defined piracy as "downloading software without paying for it" before. Having a bit of a narrow view on the world, aren't we?

Of course, software (and everything else) should be payed for. Nobody should give something of value away and not charge for it -- you're underselling if you do, and that's unfair to the good people who are trying to make a profit here. How else are we going to have a healthy ecosystem of goods and services?

In these tight times, citizens should not be harming the economy that way. All those ways in which a good transaction is still wasted today! People playing music for their friends, without purchasing records. Walking in parks with just trees and no shops. Reading books without advertising. Come on people, these models are just not viable anymore.

We should teach people that giving things away is stealing from the economy. It's simply unethical.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Gorsh... (Score:1)
by Anonvmous Coward on Wednesday July 24, @04:25AM (#3943005)
(User #589068 Info)
"Could someone pass The BSA a cluebat?"

Okay, here you go [unt.edu]. :)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
bag of crap (Score:1)
by balloonhead (doncuan&yahoo,com) on Wednesday July 24, @04:28AM (#3943014)
(User #589759 Info)
This is a load of shite. This self-interested "study" is being used to push through laws with incredible reach and implication, relying on a complete unawareness of Joe Public.

It is amazing that this can happen. We could lose most of our rights as consumers because of this, based on no real facts. I only hope a judge will see through the lies in court when cases start coming to them.

It looks like these laws will go through though; you never hear headlines in the regular press about any of this sort of stuff - no-one is going to go against it that has any real clout (i.e. FSF are, as far as I can see, impotent).

We'll see if it really does affect things the way /. are saying it will though - are they going to arrest every open source user / contributer? I think that'll be hard to push in court. Though I suppose it won't be possible anyway if DRM stops it being installed / downloaded in the first place...

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Don't be surprised... (Score:5, Insightful)
by allanj on Wednesday July 24, @04:30AM (#3943015)
(User #151784 Info)

that they didn't factor in Open Source. It would have lessened their argument, and it's bad enough as is. Besides, piracy figures from the BSA and similar bodies have always been - at most - one notch above reading tea-leaves.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Statistics (Score:2, Funny)
by af_robot on Wednesday July 24, @04:40AM (#3943034)
(User #553885 Info)
Seems like BSA followed usual business plan:
stage 1: Post biased annual piracy statistics in media
stage 2: ???
stage 3: PROFIT!!!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Harsh (Score:4, Flamebait)
by Mr_Silver on Wednesday July 24, @04:40AM (#3943035)
(User #213637 Info | http://www.uberworld.org/user_info.cgi?name=Silver)
They represent corporate greed, they 'blackmail' companies into paying for huge site licenses to cover all the workstations and then some, or face a 'software audit' in which they'll no doubt find some violations.

Harsh. If you purchase a product then the very least you should do is purchase the correct number of licences. This is the nature of commercial software after all.

Have a 100 machine site license and a hundred machines, but just bought that new desktop for the boss? Lost the paperwork for the server in the corner?

Then you're one hundred percent in the wrong. When you're an organisation you should be keeping detailed records (after all you probably do when it concerns money owed to you).

You can't use lazyness and sloppyness as an excuse for violating a licence. Whatever that licence is.

If someone used that excuse as a reason for violating the GPL, I doubt it would wash - so why do you think it should the other way?

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Harsh by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @05:25AM
    • Re:Harsh by mpe (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @09:31PM
  • Re:Harsh by el_nino (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @05:28AM
    • Re:Harsh by johnnyb (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @09:30AM
    • Re:Harsh by norwoodites (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @09:47AM
  • Re:Harsh by _Sprocket_ (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @05:54AM
    • Re:Harsh by A_Non_Moose (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @10:54AM
  • Re:Harsh by rseuhs (Score:3) Wednesday July 24, @06:46AM
    • Re:Harsh by SN74S181 (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @11:17AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Harsh by stewby18 (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @07:46AM
  • The problems I have with BSA audits are by Sycraft-fu (Score:3) Wednesday July 24, @07:52AM
  • Re:Harsh by 1in10 (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @07:56AM
    • Re:Harsh by Mojo Geek (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @11:48AM
    • Re:Harsh (Score:4, Insightful)
    by imadork on Wednesday July 24, @08:58AM (#3943657)
    (User #226897 Info | http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Monday August 20, @06:46PM)
    Have a 100 machine site license and a hundred machines, but just bought that new desktop for the boss? Lost the paperwork for the server in the corner?
    Then you're one hundred percent in the wrong. When you're an organisation you should be keeping detailed records (after all you probably do when it concerns money owed to you).

    In that case, since you're an expert as to what organizations do, I'm sure that you have proof of purchase for every piece of office furniture that you have in your office, don't you?

    After all, by your logic, if the Office Furniture Alliance comes and does an audit, and finds that you're missing the proof of purchase for that one file cabinet in the small office that nobody uses, then somebody must have stolen it, right? Because if you can't prove you own every piece of furniture, you're one hundred percent in the wrong. When you're an organisation you should be keeping detailed records (after all you probably do when it concerns money owed to you).

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Re:Harsh by Mr_Silver (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @09:21AM
      • Re:Harsh by imadork (Score:3) Wednesday July 24, @09:46AM
        • Re:Harsh by silas_moeckel (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @10:37AM
      • Re:Harsh by jafac (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @03:35PM
    • Re:Harsh by SN74S181 (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @11:20AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Harsh by RickHunter (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @08:59AM
  • Re:Harsh by MeNeXT (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @09:01AM
    • Re:Harsh by Mr_Silver (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @09:28AM
      • Re:Harsh by MeNeXT (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @09:43AM
    • Re:Harsh by mpe (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @09:25PM
  • Re:Harsh by Monkey Boy (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @10:27AM
    • Re:Harsh by Mr_Silver (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @11:11AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Harsh by cafination (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @10:50AM
  • Re:Harsh by mpe (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @09:33PM
  • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
Of course, one has to consider... (Score:4, Interesting)
by 91degrees on Wednesday July 24, @04:46AM (#3943041)
(User #207121 Info | Last Journal: Tuesday March 12, @05:06AM)
The actual piracy rates are a wild guess as it is. Its based on the number of applications they expect to sell. Since piracy has been around for at least as long as computers, this figure has never been calculated from a static value.

While it is true that they ask people what software they use, a lot of people genuinely don't know. They'll say Word when they have StarOffice
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Question (Score:1, Funny)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 24, @04:47AM (#3943042)
> Could someone pass The BSA a cluebat?

Would a cluebong do instead?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
These people have a clue. (Score:5, Interesting)
by g4dget on Wednesday July 24, @04:49AM (#3943044)
(User #579145 Info)
The BSA knows exactly what they are doing and they are very smart. They simply interpret the facts in the most convenient way they can to advance their agenda. Open source software is a threat to their members, so why should they make any allowances for it in their statistics if they don't have to?

I suspect the BSA is run by rampant free market ideologues. If you pressed them about their philosophy, they would probably say something like that open source software is a threat to the free enterprise system and mostly copies commercial software; while open source may not be illegal, maybe it should be.

Don't expect to be able to reason with those people. Oppose their claims with facts whereever you can, and expose the irrationality and inefficiency of their model of software distribution.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:These people have a clue. by BigJim.fr (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @06:07AM
    • Terminology (Score:4, Informative)
    by ratamacue on Wednesday July 24, @09:09AM (#3943709)
    (User #593855 Info | http://free-market.net/)
    I suspect the BSA is run by rampant free market ideologues. ... they would probably say ... while open source may not be illegal, maybe it should be.

    As a "rampant free market ideologue" (Libertarian), I will be the first to point out that you have confused the meaning of free-market economics (i.e. capitalism), which implies the absence of government interference (coercion) in the market, with a hypothetical regulation, imposed through coercion, which happens to favor one particular group over another. Capitalism does not necessarily imply profit but only the absence of coercion in the market. Free market economics is grounded in voluntary cooperation, not coercion (which is the definining prerequisite of any government). Hence, open source software falls squarely into the category of free-market enterprise, and in fact, to a greater degree than any software vendor which relies on patent law to sustain a business model. (Patent law, you may be surprised to know, is contrary to the true principles of free market economics, because it is derived from coercion.)

    See free-market.net [free-market.net] if you are interested...

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Capitalism by MountainLogic (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @01:17PM
      • Re:Capitalism by ratamacue (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @05:49PM
    • Re:Terminology by Elwood P Dowd (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @01:28PM
      • Re:Terminology by ratamacue (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @05:08PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:These people have a clue. by puckhead (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @10:42AM
  • Re:These people have a clue. by A_Non_Moose (Score:3) Wednesday July 24, @11:00AM
  • Re:These people have a clue. by HiThere (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @12:58PM
  • Re:"clue: Command not found." by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @06:12AM
  • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Napster?!? (Score:4, Insightful)
by Johnny O on Wednesday July 24, @04:54AM (#3943052)
(User #22313 Info | http://johnnyo.home.mindspring.com/)
Im sorry, the article mentions Napster as a source of software?!?! Not only does napster not exist anymore, but it never shared software....
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
BSA is a business (Score:2, Insightful)
by Alain Williams on Wednesday July 24, @04:58AM (#3943058)
(User #2972 Info)
The BSA's primary interest is it's own bottom line and the continued employment of it's staff. This is more important to it than the profits of BSA members.

Thus the BSA will generate stories and statistics that ensure it's continued existance.

BSA is not that different from many commercial organisations.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Cluebats will be useless (Score:1)
by TheCyko1 on Wednesday July 24, @04:59AM (#3943059)
(User #568452 Info)
"The article suggests that free software has made piracy statistics look worse and hence encourages governments to create harsher laws ... Could someone pass The BSA a cluebat"

I don''t think they didn't know about freeware. If you've seen your fair share of arguments, you'd know that people often like to use truth, in thier own demented way. My fist thought on this was that they intentionally left those stats in just to have thier own corporate way.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Better yet (Score:3, Funny)
by mizhi on Wednesday July 24, @05:03AM (#3943064)
(User #186984 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
Could someone please use the cluebat on the BSA?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Here's one (Score:3, Insightful)
by heikkile on Wednesday July 24, @05:15AM (#3943090)
(User #111814 Info | http://www.indexdata.dk)
Could someone pass The BSA a cluebat?

Have someone inform BSA that the FSF office is actually using pirated word processors for all their work. Let them ask for an audit, and try to force the matter. Immediate self-lart, with lots of publicity for both parts!

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Here's one by surprise_audit (Score:1) Wednesday July 24, @07:23AM
  • Re:Here's one by interiot (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @09:35AM
Isn't this good? (Score:2, Insightful)
by ultrabot on Wednesday July 24, @05:17AM (#3943095)
(User #200914 Info)
All the laws against piracy actually benefit the Open Source community. Now the companies are starting to realize how expensive commercial software is, when they actually need to start paying the full price for all the seats. This is just what we *need*. One might even hypotethize that MS doesn't want BSA to be too strict, in order to prevent mass migration to greener pastures.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Welcome to the world of statistics and projections (Score:1)
by Critical_ on Wednesday July 24, @05:46AM (#3943141)
(User #25211 Info)
The BSA is largely based on what is called biased-interpretation statistics and false software sales projections. Piracy is/has been in the world of computer for as far back as I can remember (pre-286 days). The largest problem is that how can a group such as the BSA base some piracy satistics when there was never a time when piracy wasn't around. So it is a guess, right? Exactly.

Furthermore, the BSA only projects how many boxes of a product might be sold or they rely on surveys in which people anonymously tell them that they have certain pieces of software and then they tell them if they are pirated or not. The problem is that most people out there downloading .NET Server, MS Exchange, SQL server are only getting it for the brag-factor. What about all those people that use Photoshop for a normal image viewer? Those people wouldn't go out and pay $500 for photoshop, they just have it since its the in-thing! I mean, what's a better deal than when its free? Of cousre, why not get the most over-powered/bloated piece of software if its free (windows-user mentality)?

The point is, if the BSA wants to skew statistics, they will. They are an organization supported by business so they will always approach this subject with a slant.
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Value? (Score:2)
by Mister Transistor on Wednesday July 24, @05:50AM (#3943142)
(User #259842 Info)
In the article they mention that Open-source solutions were not on their "list" of applications that people use; that actually makes sense - those apps are not produced by BSA-affiliated entities, so the BSA isn't interested in apps people use that aren't the IP of one of their gang.

What I would like to know is if the Open-source s/w is being lumped into those dollar estimates, what price value do they give to, say, Star Office?

Since that app isn't on their list, how can they lump it in with the values given? I would have guessed that Star Office would occasionally get the MS-Office box checked erroneously, but they are careful to mention that the applist is VERY specific, so how can this happen?

Just wondering, since this doesn't seem to make sense.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Lets fight back! (Score:1)
by stroker666 on Wednesday July 24, @06:26AM (#3943199)
(User #230021 Info)
I am deeply against this type way of pushing a point. Everyone send them just 1 email to let them know this is wrong. 1 email in your protest. The computer people should stand up once and a while and show them our power too. Expose the frauds!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
please everyone remember... (Score:5, Insightful)
by Lumpy (dont_type_this.timgray@lambdanet.com) on Wednesday July 24, @06:30AM (#3943210)
(User #12016 Info | http://www.lambdanet.com/)
The BSA is NOT a government agency, they have no real abilities outside of having a fleet of overpaid lawyers and a buttload of money to blackmail or assult a company with. remember these words... the Business Software Alliance is Nothing but another Company.

And this company is paid to make money for the companies that pay them. Of course they are lying about how much piracy is happening. Of course they publish false and misleading information about the amount of money lost due to piracy. Of course they include linux, BSD, Open BeOS, Samba, Open office, Abiword, Gimp and everything else that is 100% free AND popular in their numbers. It inflates them and makes the lies they publish previousally look even better.

Remember the Business Software Alliance is nothing more than a paid extortion racket. If they threaten your company you should never let them in without a judge-signed search warrant.

They ARE NOT A GOVERNMENT AGENCY! Unlike OSHA who is, they have ZERO legal power and ZERO rights above what you have. Fight the bastards and make them spend their money to get in your building, and then be sure to sue for lost revinue, destruction of property, and public defamation.

Thank you, This post is brought to you by the Council to stop freeware piracy. "Remember every time you pirate a freeware program you hurt...Ummm... well you hurt someone!"
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Chuckle.. (Score:5, Funny)
by TheCrunch (TheCrunch(a)hotmail.com) on Wednesday July 24, @06:42AM (#3943230)
(User #179188 Info | http://www.slippersandpipe.co.uk/)
BSA Guy 1: The piracy figures keep increasing. Watch as I subtract the number of windows registrations from the number of computers.
BSA Guy 2: Dear god, you're right. Look how many stolen copies of Windows are in use. Piracy is terrible! Must inform government now!
Monkey: Well actually, not all of those are Windows. A proportion will be free software, like Linux.
BSA Guy 1: Linux, eh?
Monkey: And friends.
BSA Guy 2: So who uses Linux?
Monkey: Well, geeks and monkeys, mostly.
BSA Guy 1: Geeks, eh? Excellent. Sound like modern-day pirates to me.
Monkey: Brooooow.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Chuckle.. by norwoodites (Score:2) Wednesday July 24, @09:53AM
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This thread would not be complete without... (Score:2, Informative)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 24, @06:48AM (#3943242)
a link to this excellent discussion [netcom.com] of how the BSA piracy statistics misrepresent reality. It is from a few years ago, but the principles have not changed, nor have the motivations of the parties involved.

What? You thought that their numbers were everything anything other than a publicity gimmick which they know doesn't match reality? Shame on you! Those numbers are distorted to be as high as they think they can get away with.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
I Love the BSA! (Score:2)
by Eric Damron on Wednesday July 24, @06:56AM (#3943257)
(User #553630 Info)
They're good for open source software. Every time Mr. Business hears about a BSA organized raid on some poor SOB that didn't keep all of his paperwork for his small company computers, they'll be thinking about ways to avoid that fate.

They can file away every receipt and licensing agreement that they get or they can use software that doesn't come preloaded with BSA bullshit.

I would suggest that when you buy software that you check first to see if the software company who holds the copyright has entered into an agreement with the BSA and if you find that they have put the box back on the shelf and walk out.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Support the BSA - they hurt MSFT (Score:4, Interesting)
by pieterh on Wednesday July 24, @07:02AM (#3943271)
(User #196118 Info)
The point made by some previous posters here deserves highlighting. The BSA are a potent weapon in the drive to get every software user to pay for their software. The most widely used software is Microsoft's stuff.
The pain barrier on MSFT software is only acceptable to most people because they can count on getting a cracked, copied, or borrowed copy of Office to run on their home PCs.
I predict that the BSA will be a strong force in the adoption of free software. My company moved wholesale to OpenOffice exactly because it was the easiest and cheapest way to avoid upgrading to Office XP (the alternatives being to use illegal packages or pay the licenses).
Support the BSA and fight piracy! When commercial software is pirated, people do not appreciate the value of free and open software.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
I've got a metaphore for you (Score:2)
by GroovBird (dave@groovbird.com.nospam.com) on Wednesday July 24, @07:24AM (#3943315)
(User #209391 Info | http://www.groovbird.com/)
Picture a balloon, filled with air. The balloon itself puts pressure on the air.

Now the balloon is not tight, some air can escape through the hole, but airflow is not very high.

But as the balloon gets smaller because air is escaping, pressure goes up, since the elasticity of the rubber dictates that more force is applied to the air when it gets smaller. Result: more air molecules seek the freedom from outside the balloon, resulting in the balloon getting tighter and tighter.

Now the balloon is almost empty, since all air has escaped. Sure, there's still some air inside, but since the balloon is completely deflated, the rubber no longer wants to shrink, hence there is no more pressure.

Didya get it? didya? didya? didya?

Dave
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not just open source.... (Score:1)
by neo-phyter (neo_phyter@sympatico.spam'n'eggs.ca) on Wednesday July 24, @07:27AM (#3943321)
(User #167886 Info)
but any file that is traded legally.
Is it illegal for me to download a song to which I already own a licence because I bought the record or tape 10 years ago? No, I don't think so, either.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
I Buy My Software... (Score:1)
by Aknaton on Wednesday July 24, @07:46AM (#3943360)
(User #528294 Info | http://www.jeffreyf.net/)
but I can certainly understand why some don't want to. After all, what do you really get for obtaining your software legally? Not much. You have to (pretty much) pay for tech support, not the mention that most software publishers use the EULA as a way to escape all responsibility for their product.

I think what software publishers need to do is offer legal users more than what they do now.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Well duh, who are members of the BSA? (Score:2)
by zerofoo on Wednesday July 24, @08:02AM (#3943403)
(User #262795 Info)
Are any free software companies BSA members? Why would the BSA account for software created by non-members?

Now that business auditor integrity is being questioned by congress post-Enron, I'd love to see the BSA's practices put under the microscope. These guys are enforcing copyright law, and are supported by their very members. I'd hardly call the BSA an impartial auditor. It wouldn't suprize me if BSA members pressure the BSA for "results" or threaten to not support ($$$) the BSA.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
A Simple Analogy (Score:1)
by Dexter77 (dexter@thisIsForS.PA.M.luukku.com) on Wednesday July 24, @08:14AM (#3943450)
(User #442723 Info)
Free Software = Communism (Defined by M$)
Communism = Crime (defined by senator McGarthy)
Crime = Piracy (defined by BSA)

Therefore Free Software = Piracy

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Wow. How remarkably short sighted. (Score:2)
by Mulletproof on Wednesday July 24, @08:38AM (#3943568)
(User #513805 Info)
Just like Axe make makers don't take into account the effect of an axe murder? I thinking I'm beginning to see...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
BSA Investigated For Piracy, Shuts Down (Score:2)
by Vortran on Wednesday July 24, @08:40AM (#3943582)
(User #253538 Info | http://www.cybermike.net/)
Investigator: Mr. Kruger, do you have current legitimate licenses for every single software title on each and every computer you own or use?

Bob Kruger: Uhh.. well, we uh..."

Investigator: Mr. Kruger, have you or anyone else currently in the employ of BSA ever used software for which you did not possess a valid legal license?

Bob Kruger: Bblblb-b-b-plplpppht blub..blubb...

Investigator: ...then shut the f*ck up, go away, and take the BSA with you!

Vortran out
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Get a clue? ? But this is their goal. (Score:1)
by nurb432 on Wednesday July 24, @08:46AM (#3943604)
(User #527695 Info | http://www.instaview.com/)
Since stiffer laws that give them more control is their goal, of course they will inflate things to promote THEIR viewpoint..

They have a clue.. and pretty damned effective..
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Why would they? (Score:1)
by WCMI92 (wcmi@@@wvradio...net) on Wednesday July 24, @09:15AM (#3943740)
(User #592436 Info | http://wvradio.net/)
After all, the BSA is just Microsoft's "Brownshirts", little more than their own private little extortion and stormtrooper division.

MS does not acknowledge competition that is not like them (closed). Therefore, neither will the BSA.

In the wake of the current corporate accounting scams, why aren't the RIAA/MPAA/BSA members being called to task for the $BILLIONS they claim in public FUD in "losses" to "piracy", yet they NEVER EVER put these in their financial statements...

Methinks the IP lobby needs to either PROVE these losses or be sued for fraud.

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It an't going to change... (Score:1)
by onlyabill on Wednesday July 24, @09:56AM (#3944000)
(User #591213 Info)
First, I have always felt that the BSA's piracy claims were such CRAP. Where do their 'estimates' come from? They run a number of 'surveys' that are full of loaded questions and they include media counts from pirate shops that have been raided, making the assumption that since the illegal copies exist, someone will use it.

Second, another often over-looked issue with software piracy which affects the survey results is (and this is NOT an excuse, just a statement of reality) that may of the individuals that use software illegally, would NOT use it any other way. They just could not justify the purchase. They either use it so ill often that it is not worth owning or it is just too expensive and they the could never afford to buy it.

If the BSA thinks piracy is bad (and it is) and they know a driving force in piracy is the high cost of software, why are they not pushing their members to reduce the cost of software so that it is more affordable? That would increase sales and make up for the (suspect) claimed losses from piracy.

One of the reasons is, by having vastly inflated piracy numbers that they use to bully the government into making tougher laws and businesses with which to threaten with big lawsuits, they can continue to justify the high cost of software.

It is the old catch-22, it cost so much cause of all of the stealing, they are stealing it cause it cost so much!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Yes, the BSA makes up their statistics. (Score:3, Interesting)
by jpvlsmv on Wednesday July 24, @10:06AM (#3944050)
(User #583001 Info | http://www.iegrec.org/)
Read their "State Piracy Study" [bsa.org], particularly page 5 where they define their statistical methods.

About their estimate of the "demand" for software:

  • "PC shipments by state were estimated from a detailed review of the employment and population of each state and market research that surveyed the PC penetration rate of each state."
  • "These estimates of software applications [...] were allowed to vary slightly by state. They were then applied to the state PC shipment estimates to form state-specific software demand estimates."
About their estimate of the "supply" of software:
  • "This data was compiled only for software applications that were studied in the "2000 BSA Global Software Piracy Study". [...] The resulting shipment data was uplifted to reflect shipments for the entire software industry."
The difference between "supply" and "demand" is defined to be the "piracy".

For the retail value of the software (the larger number often quoted by the media) they added 22% on top of that.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Mother Jones on the BSA (Score:1)
by ianscot on Wednesday July 24, @10:23AM (#3944159)
(User #591483 Info)
There's an interesting old Mother Jones article about the BSA, its tactics, and its relationship to the MS mother ship:

Overseas Invasion [motherjones.com]

Excerpt:

But instead of waiting for a ruling on the case, the BSA abruptly dropped the suit in the fall of 1997. The BSA receives funding from most of the top software companies but appears to be most heavily funded by Microsoft. And, according to Antel's information technology manager, Ricardo Tascenho, the company settled the matter by signing a "special agreement" with Microsoft to replace all of its software with Microsoft products.

The BSA's lawyer in Uruguay, Eduardo DeFreitas, supports Tascenho's story: "Microsoft told me to stop working on the case because they would write an agreement with Antel." DeFreitas says Microsoft's Uruguay manager, Tomas Blatt, instructed him to drop the suit so that Microsoft could "work out a deal for the future."

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Asia Carrera and the BSA (Score:1)
by TheHouseMouse on Wednesday July 24, @11:56AM (#3944871)
(User #589773 Info)
Ok, well this doesn't have much to do with the actual topic, I just though I needed a place to vent this information. I was watching G4 TV (video game channel) today, and for their 'Players' series (which intereview celebrities about video games), they went to Asia Carerra's house. For those who don't know, Asia Carerra is a master of the copulating arts (or a pornstar if you want to be a d*ck about it*). Well, apparently Asia is very much into PC gaming and running her own website. And when I saw running her own website, I mean I think she's actually the sysadmin. In her gaming room were 4 PC's and a massive bookshelf with books on linux, unix, tcp/ip, photoshop, apache, etc... She even creates her own Unreal Tournament skins in photoshop. Now damn...i'm impressed. How come I've never heard of this before, particularly being a member of the geek kingdom? And just to make this thread relevant, how does the BSA deal with people owning multiple copies of a game and not using all of them? So, what counts as use; does a sale count as use or does the game need to be used, for it to be use. Use use use.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Overpriced software, in their own words... (Score:1)
by azpenguin on Wednesday July 24, @12:28PM (#3945128)
(User #589022 Info)
"software piracy fell $US1 billion to $10.97 billion due to a "decline in software prices making the benefits of original software more compelling against the risks of software piracy and the effects of a worldwide economic slowdown", the groups say"
You mean that bringing the price of a product down more in line with its real value makes people more likely to buy it? Unbelievable.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
I don't understand how the numbers are justified (Score:1)
by DJayC on Wednesday July 24, @12:46PM (#3945273)
(User #595440 Info)
I never understood how exactly the numbers are figured. Piracy obviously doesn't cause as much financial loss as is reported. For example, some 14 year old pirates 3DStudio Max to create 3D graphics in his basement. There is no way this kid could afford this software at all, yet they are reporting this as a 'loss'. It's not a loss at all... they didn't lose a sale, heck they never would have got his money in the first place! How can companies claim to lose money on something they wouldn't have sold anyway.

Another example: video game piracy. Once mod chips / mod plugs came out, Sony reported tons of losses due to software piracy. Here again, a lot of those sales they wouldn't have made. How many people downloaded and burned games "just because they could". Half the (games/music/software.. you pick) would still be sitting on the shelf at the piraters local retail store regardless of whether or not they pirated it.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Did anyone else catch this? (Score:1)
by Calculus Brown (Calculus Brown) on Wednesday July 24, @01:09PM (#3945501)
(User #239746 Info)
Globally, it says, software piracy fell $US1 billion to $10.97 billion due to a "decline in software prices making the benefits of original software more compelling against the risks of software piracy and the effects of a worldwide economic slowdown", the groups say.

I wonder, if Windows XP Professional was $50 US (Hell if it was even $75 US) instead of $299 how much that would cut BSA's piracy figures by?

Calculus Brown
  Puttin the Funk back in mathematics!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Let the BSA go at it (Score:2)
by JoeBuck on Wednesday July 24, @01:33PM (#3945703)
(User #7947 Info | http://www.welsh-buck.org/jbuck/)

Free software folks should applaud the BSA's efforts to do draconian enforcement of their "intellectual property". Since most users who "pirate" proprietary software can't afford to pay, strict enforcement will drive them to Linux and other free software. In areas where it is not good enough, folks in the third world have brains and more time than money, so they will be highly motivated to help make it better.

The fact that you don't see such points made that often on Slashdot suggests to me that most of the Slashdot crowd is more interested in the "free beer" aspect than the "free speech" aspect of free software/open source.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
I suspect the politicians know this (Score:2)
by Paul Johnson (paul@cogito.org.uk) on Wednesday July 24, @01:36PM (#3945723)
(User #33553 Info | http://www.cogito.org.uk)
These days people can't even trust audited accounts, and BSA piracy numbers are just unaudited guesswork.

Politicians see a lot of pressure groups with axes to grind and corporate backing to pay their bills, and they know exactly how much to trust their numbers.

Of course the BSA doesn't exactly rely on its numbers to make its case. They rely on other numbers in campaign contributions as well. But thats a whole 'nother ball game.

Paul.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:From the BSA homepage... (Score:3, Informative)
by AndyChrist on Wednesday July 24, @04:17AM (#3942985)
(User #161262 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
How much of a drain does the application software (as opposed to high-end and/or custom software, which if anything could be HELPED by free software...SOMEONE is getting paid to adapt that software to an organization's needs) industry put on the economy, compared to the benefits it offers?

How many jobs will be created in businesses that rely upon commercial application software as a result of costs cut through cheaper software?

Shouldn't free software, apart from it's impacts on the application software industry, be seen just like tax cuts are?

Well, unless tax cuts aren't all they're cracked up to be.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:From the BSA homepage... (Score:4, Informative)
by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 24, @04:19AM (#3942993)
It's a hacked version of item 5.1 on this page [bsa.org]. They're referring to piracy, not open source.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:From the BSA homepage... (Score:2, Insightful)
by chrismear (chris@myself.com) on Wednesday July 24, @04:26AM (#3943007)
(User #535657 Info | http://www.feedmechocolate.com/)

It's interesting that, while they make the potentially valid point that a proliferation of free software might discourage local software industries from developing, they've completely missed the reasons behind this.

If these software companies went ahead and produced software that was better than the available free software -- that is, actually worth the cost of ownership over the free software -- then they would probably sell copies. As it is, it sounds like the BSA is saying that decent, respectable software companies aren't able to get away with hawking mediocre products, because the evil free software developers are producing software that's as good or better, and giving it away! Well, boo hoo.

Incidentally, this quote's a keeper: "free software, which is often manufactured by organized criminals". Classic.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
The most interesting sentence from the above .... (Score:1)
by deek (deek(at)optushome.com.au) on Wednesday July 24, @04:30AM (#3943016)
(User #22697 Info | http://slashdot.org/)

      By spending money on free software, which is often manufactured by organized criminals, customers also are inadvertently stifling the growth potential of the economy and contributing to the loss of tax revenue and employment.
Congratulations to all those who work on free software. You now considered to be most likely a criminal. Don't bother calling the FBI, the FBI will probably call you :).

DeeK
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:From the BSA homepage... (Score:3, Interesting)
by KNicolson on Wednesday July 24, @04:35AM (#3943026)
(User #147698 Info)
I smell a doctored article with dodgy statements like:

By spending money on free software

A quick web search turns up this original version:

http://www.howtotell.com/ww/bsa.asp [howtotell.com]

For the link-paranoid, replace "free software" with "pirate software" to get the original text.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
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