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The Day The Music Died: Windows Media and DRM
MusicPosted by michael on Thursday August 15, @10:17AM
from the coming-soon-to-a-computer-near-you dept.
SampleMinded writes "The Guardian reports on an early glimpse of what a DRM controlled future looks like. Imagine backing up your files, reformatting your hard drive, then copying the files back over only to find your music no longer works. It happened to this guy. Now That's what I call Xperience!"

 

 
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<  Tracking Your Employees, Children | Python Programming with the Java Class Libraries  >
The Day The Music Died: Windows Media and DRM | Log in/Create an Account | Top | 698 comments | Search Discussion
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It's already happening (Score:5, Informative)
by crivens (mikeATstodgeDOTnet) on Thursday August 15, @10:21AM (#4076587)
(User #112213 Info | http://www.stodge.net/)
It happened to my fiancee. She backed up her music made using Real Jukebox to her D drive. We re-formatted drive C and re-installed Windows. Of course, not having saved the security key, when she restored her music files she couldn't play them.

As always, the honest people suffer.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Windows Media Player?? (Score:5, Insightful)
by nucal on Thursday August 15, @10:22AM (#4076593)
(User #561664 Info)
have been collecting music using Windows Media Player to copy from CDs.

That was the first mistake...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re:Windows Media Player?? (Score:5, Informative)
    by slagdogg on Thursday August 15, @10:35AM (#4076706)
    (User #549983 Info)
    Actually, his first mistake was not disabling the 'Personal Protection' feature ... this would have solved his problem just as well as using another product.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Windows Media Player?? by Jonboy X (Score:2) Thursday August 15, @10:38AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Windows Media Player?? by marauder404 (Score:3) Thursday August 15, @10:40AM
      Re:Windows Media Player?? (Score:5, Insightful)
      by JWW on Thursday August 15, @10:51AM (#4076840)
      (User #79176 Info)
      I think they were criticizing the DRM implementation.

      AND.. the program was easy to use until he reinstalled, then it was pure hell to use. It was a mistake because the program became unproductive working with the same files after just a reinstall.

      This thing gives me chills. He has to connect to the internet to restore his music? This really points to the disturbing trend (Palladium anyone?) that says you have to connect to the internet to even use your computer. Half of time I'm using my computer at home, I'm not connected to the internet (yes I still have dial up). As much as I would like always on broadband, I really pisses me off that companies are trying to implement technology to force me to check with them to see if its "OK" to do something.

      Damn right it was their first mistake, a damn big one at that. Technology like this should be shunned as if it has the plague.
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      • Net Connection to Use PC by Skarn (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @11:27AM
      • Re:Windows Media Player?? by Reziac (Score:2) Thursday August 15, @12:17PM
      • Re:Windows Media Player?? by shoemakc (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @12:57PM
        • It's an "Internal Security" issue, too. (Score:4, Insightful)
        by Ungrounded Lightning (rod@node.com) on Thursday August 15, @02:52PM (#4078971)
        (User #62228 Info)
        This really points to the disturbing trend (Palladium anyone?) that says you have to connect to the internet to even use your computer.

        A bomber the FBI was hunting recently discovered something similar about his cell phone.

        He had driven halfway across the country from the area where he had been planting bombs in people's mailboxes. Somewhere in Nevada he powered up his cellphone. And when the cellphone identified itself to the network, the new "locate the 911 call" system (which actually tracks the phone any time it's on) reported his location to the cops (who had already notified the phone company to look out for him). They had him captured within half an hour.

        Of course the first time the general population heard about this capability was when it was mentioned in a news story about the capture. (If the cops hadn't told the reporter it had been used, even those of us who knew it was possible wouldn't have known it was already deployed.)

        This digital rights management registration has the same properties, but for any type of line:

      • Turn on your computer while it's attached to the internet and it "phones home" to check your licenses, which are identified to you personally.
      • This identifies the IP number you're currently using.
      • The IP number - even if it's dynamic - identifies the ISP, and the port within it.
      • The ISP can track the port to a physical connection - either hardwired or dialup - and can do this either in real-time or from logs after the connection is dropped.
      • The location can be identified immediately for hardwired connectinos. For dialups the phone company or companies handling the call can track it - again either real-time or from logs. (Both the ISP and the phone companies can tie this to your name, bank account, and so on.)
      • The entire process CAN be automated (if it has not been already), much like Carnivore, giving the FBI or others instant access to the information.


        • This may already have been authorized by the Patriot act. It's directed at enemy non-citizens and intended to be used by the "intelligence community" and so claims to escape many civil-rights safeguards (such as the need to get a warrant before using it), much like the incarceration without recourse to courts used against Johnny Walker Lindh and others associated with the Taliban.

        Of course if this facility is used to capture an actual bomber and save lives, that's good. But if it's used to capture somebody some law-enforcement or spy agency THINKS is the bomber, it's not so good. And if it's used to harass opposition political figures, anybody some bureaucrat or cop doesn't like, or random citizens, it's called "a police state".

        Please don't tell me "It can't happen here." Because it DID happen here. Repeatedly. (Look up COINTELPRO - or the general history of the FBI - for examples within the computer era.) And don't tell me it USED to happen but doesn't anymore, either. It takes decades for this stuff to come to light, so the recent stuff is still not general knowledge. (I remember people saying it doesn't happen anymore when COINTELPRO was happeneing.)

        But the "digital rights management" hook is just the last straw, tying your personal identity to your computer's identity in advance. The bulk of this has already been deployed - at least in Microsoft systems and possibly in others.

      • Microsoft system installs attempt to configure your network connection. If they succeed, it's "PC Phone Home". They have your Software Product Key (a unique identifier for the software distribution), the serial number of your CPU if it exposes one, the MAC address of any ethernet cards (which can serve as a hardware unique identifier if your CPU doesn't expose a serial number), and any info you entered during the setup - like to sign up for network service. Of course the connection itself gives them your call trace information.
      • A few years ago Microsoft found a new use for spam: They sent out a series of "developer

        Read the rest of this comment...

        • [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Re:Windows Media Player?? by DunbarTheInept (Score:2) Thursday August 15, @12:00PM
    • Re:Windows Media Player?? by imkonen (Score:2) Thursday August 15, @01:18PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:Windows Media Player?? by Ilgaz (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @01:31PM
  • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
don't use media player? (Score:2, Interesting)
by westcourt_monk on Thursday August 15, @10:23AM (#4076598)
(User #516239 Info | http://www.crackbaby.com/)
Ummm.. don't use windows media player.

What I am more worried about is iTunes going that way. It is probably the best mp3 player and disk ripper out there (at least for mac). The RIAA can't be happy with how easy it is to 'mix, rip, burn.'

I wonder if Apple has thought about iTunes for Windows. They have iPod for windows and iPod and iTunes play so well together I couldn't imagine one without the other.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Don't even have to do a reinstall (Score:5, Informative)
by taeric on Thursday August 15, @10:23AM (#4076599)
(User #204033 Info)
You don't even have to try to reload backed up data to get bit by this. Not too long ago, I upgraded my processor and was subsequently locked out of all the media files I made using Media Player.

I was less then pleased, for obvious reasons. It was just a minor headache remaking files using other programs and such, but it was a minor headache I could have lived without.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Insanity (Score:1, Redundant)
by x311 on Thursday August 15, @10:23AM (#4076600)
(User #600406 Info | http://www.rickgebhardt.doesntexist.com/)
With all of these countermeasures against copying and piracy put on all digital media, people are eventually just going to quit buying music and stick to listening to what they already own. I have already started to do this and have really uncovered some gems in my cd collection and of some mp3's that I've just had stored in the back of my HD. Rediscover your old favorites and let all of this crap blow over. Besides, most of today's music is manufactured crap anyhow.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Happened to me too... (Score:2, Funny)
by LordYUK on Thursday August 15, @10:23AM (#4076602)
(User #552359 Info | http://www.threemoons.net/)
I formatted, transferred everything over my LAN, opened up winamp, tried to play something, and nothing happened!!! I was dismayed!!!

Then I installed the sound card drivers, and Poof! it worked!!

And yes, that WAS a joke. :)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Once again: you don't have to use MS software (Score:1)
by Lug Monkeybird on Thursday August 15, @10:25AM (#4076611)
(User #589781 Info)
I find this kind of stuff at least annoying and at most repulsive. But let's all remember that no one is putting a gun to anyone's head and making them use this stuff. It's up to companies to protect their own IP however they see fit, and it's up to consumers to feel free to try to find ways around it (DMCA be damned). No you go on and do what you want to... -- L
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Maybe It's Not So bad (Score:4, Insightful)
by LISNews on Thursday August 15, @10:25AM (#4076613)
(User #150412 Info | http://www.lisnews.com)
From the article: "There is still a way to get these licenses back and it is pretty easy using our Personal License Migration Service (PLMS), [which] was designed to address the exact situation you outline. The customer just has to be connected to the internet, then they can automatically restore their licenses just by playing the music files in question."

Of course it may not really be that easy, and it still is a pain, but that doesn't seem like that big of a deal, IF what they say is true in this case. Yes, this is a pain, but it could've been worse. If that's the future, it doesn't look as bad as I thought it did.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Windows Media Player...? (Score:4, Funny)
by krinsh on Thursday August 15, @10:25AM (#4076614)
(User #94283 Info | http://krinsh.tripod.com/)
Thank goodness I only use it to play porn clips from the internet, and use WinAMP and RealPlayer for anything important.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
In all fairness (Score:5, Interesting)
by swagr on Thursday August 15, @10:25AM (#4076618)
(User #244747 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
it did sound like updateing the licenses for the "new" computer was pretty simple.

What I don't understand is the reason the files could be "re-licensed" was because they were legit in the first place. Well.... isn't this true for any copy? (at some point down the line it was legit)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:In all fairness by DLWormwood (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @10:38AM
  • Re:In all fairness by medcalf (Score:2) Thursday August 15, @10:45AM
      Because of what MS isn't telling you (Score:4, Interesting)
      by DunbarTheInept (SPAMBLOCKmadings@bmrb.wisc.edu.SPAMBLOCK) on Thursday August 15, @12:57PM (#4077951)
      (User #764 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
      MS doesn't want to tell this to people, but it obviously must be archiving your list of songs on their servers somewhere. Remember the EULA of WMP that says you give MS the right to 'spy' on what you are playing? I think this feature might be the reason why that clause was there. They know that you had played that song in WMP once before.

      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:In all fairness (Score:4, Insightful)
    by thesolo (thesolo@NOSPAM.realfx.com) on Thursday August 15, @10:45AM (#4076792)
    (User #131008 Info | http://www.realfx.com/)
    it did sound like updateing the licenses for the "new" computer was pretty simple.

    Yes, it did sound pretty simple...for us! Now, imagine trying to explain to a non-technical person that they have to "Relicense" their own music because Windows thought they were a pirate. I can just imagine trying to explain to my mom over the phone why she can't play the Sinatra CD I ripped out to her PC anymore. (Fortunately, I won't ever have to deal with this scenario; my mom runs Linux ;)

    The fact is that DRM walks a VERY fine line between legitimate copy control & utter user frustration. If you go even slightly over the line, users will (eventually) rebel. Copy-protected CDs prove this point extremely well, as do proposed bills like the SSSCA (Sen. Holling's office has still not received one positive phone call from citizens over that bill).
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:In all fairness by SCHecklerX (Score:2) Thursday August 15, @11:34AM
  • Re:In all fairness by CrosbieSmith (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @02:00PM
RTFM! (Score:3, Insightful)
by seanmeister (subsynthesis@subdimension.com) on Thursday August 15, @10:26AM (#4076625)
(User #156224 Info)
So the user in question didn't follow the procedure for either turning off the DRM protection or backing up his licenses. I'm no fan of DRM, but RTFM still applies in a "DRM controlled future". Maybe even more so!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
    that's no excuse (Score:5, Insightful)
    by g4dget on Thursday August 15, @10:56AM (#4076884)
    (User #579145 Info)
    "RTFM" is an outdated concept, applicable to well-defined, standardized, software used by specialists. A software company can't excuse poor usability or unexpected data loss by saying "RTFM".

    In this case, an unobvious (mis-)feature caused a user to lose hours of work. That's a software problem, and specifically, a problem with a particular software feature, DRM. It shows that DRM reduces usability in practice. The burden of proof that this isn't necessarily true is on proponents of DRM to find workarounds.

    Also note that this particular implementation of DRM is deliberately not secure; an implementation of the form that the music industry might like might simply not let the user recover their music when they reformat their drive no matter what they do. That is, after all, effectively how CDs used to work (if the medium went bad, you lost the music), and the music industry would love to get back to that kind of environment.

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      Re:that's no excuse (Score:4, Funny)
      by Overzeetop on Thursday August 15, @12:50PM (#4077883)
      (User #214511 Info)
      What manual? I bought a retail copy of Windows XP, and there wasn't a manual anywhere in the box for any of these snazzy programs. I didn't notice a readme.txt file either. Fact is, they just snuck this one in.

      You'd love the way the IS guy at my office installs new software on our machines (he has to do it himself, 'cause nobody else has local admin rights). He runs the installer, then hits enter as quickly as possible until the install completes. Never reads a single word. I'll give him this, though - it's the fastest install I've seen!
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Re:that's no excuse by reallocate (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @01:00PM
    • Re:that's no excuse by ewhac (Score:2) Thursday August 15, @07:01PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:RTFM! by mindstrm (Score:2) Thursday August 15, @10:56AM
    • Re:RTFM! by seanmeister (Score:2) Thursday August 15, @01:00PM
  • Re:RTFM! by AftanGustur (Score:2) Thursday August 15, @11:10AM
    • Re:RTFM! by DunbarTheInept (Score:3) Thursday August 15, @12:12PM
      • Re:RTFM! by Green Light (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @12:37PM
      • Re:RTFM! by wayland (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @11:03PM
    • Re:RTFM! by reallocate (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @01:10PM
  • Re:RTFM! by platypus (Score:2) Thursday August 15, @11:14AM
    • Re:RTFM! by seanmeister (Score:2) Thursday August 15, @02:44PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:RTFM! by 0xdeadbeef (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @11:41AM
    • Re:RTFM! by uberdave (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @12:07PM
      • Re:RTFM! by 0xdeadbeef (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @12:43PM
        • Re:RTFM! by uberdave (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @02:20PM
          • Re:RTFM! by schatt (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @02:46PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:RTFM! by sharkey (Score:2) Thursday August 15, @01:33PM
  • Re:RTFM! by msimm (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @01:48PM
  • Re:RTFM! by hoytt (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @03:39PM
  • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
me like (Score:3, Informative)
by Ubi_NL (j.j.benschop@[ ].uu.nl ['bio' in gap]) on Thursday August 15, @10:26AM (#4076626)
(User #313657 Info)
1) Now Joe Public starts understanding and disliking DRM

2) Techies that already hated DRM but are not listened to by Joe Public don't use silly WMP and are not hindered by this.

What's the problem again?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
They know what you listen to... (Score:5, Insightful)
by jmu1 (jmullman@[ ]ou.edu ['gas' in gap]) on Thursday August 15, @10:26AM (#4076629)
(User #183541 Info | http://www2.gasou.edu/facstaff/jmullman | Last Journal: Friday June 07, @04:09PM)
In the "article", it is made clear that Microsoft is watching what you are listening to. The advice given to the man for his situation was to connect to the Internet and the licenses for his music(which he already paid for... why does he need yet another license) will be updated.

Updated? How did they get the original and how would they know that your files are the right files, etc... because they are watching what you are listening to. Time to read that EULA Mr. End User. Problem is, most bloody end users really don't care. I've talked to many a person and they really think it's ok. I guess that means that I _can_ put that hidden camera in their daughter's bathroom Boy, I certainly hope noone takes that one literally. ;)

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Legacy Hardware?? (Score:2)
by Vengie on Thursday August 15, @10:27AM (#4076630)
(User #533896 Info)
How is Microsoft planning on competing with all the legacy hardware out there? Say the first Palladium equipped boxen emerge.....a large portion of america (the napsterites) upon learning what it means for their (illegal) mp3's....aren't going to want said boxen. There becomes a huge market for the remaining non-DRM enabled hardware......so what does MS do? (Wait for the government to MANDATE drm in a similar fashion to whats happening with HDTV??)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Oh come on, why do that? (Score:2)
by Uttles (tom.utley@nospaM.alumni.clemson.edu) on Thursday August 15, @10:27AM (#4076632)
(User #324447 Info | http://eduslash.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday April 11, @04:52PM)
Imagine backing up your files, reformatting your hard drive, then copying the files back over only to find your music no longer works.

Hard drives never fail? Right!

This is crap and will never happen. As long as there are people out there making up new ways to distribute data (a la Ogg) then people will be able to share it. Now, they may do so illegally, but so be it.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
The sky is falling the sky is falling!!! (Score:1)
by night_flyer on Thursday August 15, @10:27AM (#4076636)
(User #453866 Info | http://www.gargoyleslanding.com/)
just how many old boxes do you keep around? use on of them, install windows 98 or 2k, do NOT upgrade to the latest MS product, play your files to your hearts content....
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Have no problems with this (Score:4, Insightful)
by Dionysus (dionysus@SPAMREMOVEfjellstad.org) on Thursday August 15, @10:29AM (#4076650)
(User #12737 Info)
I wish MS would go even further, like automatically delete the music files after a set period, or when you reinstall Windows, Word will stop working, and you need to rent a new license etc.

You know that line from Star Wars applies (paraphrasing): The more control they take over your system, the more users they will lose.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
No surprise. M$ wants him to pay every time. (Score:2)
by crovira on Thursday August 15, @10:29AM (#4076653)
(User #10242 Info | http://www.softwareprototypes.com/)
The direction M$ wants to take the world in (not where we might want to go today,) is one where PCs boot off of a network and have no local storage.

Of course its THEIR network and you pay for the connection, the storage and for every hit, every app and file load. And people who want to sell their software have to pay M$ for "retail shelf-space" at least until they suddenly find their product co-opted and integrated into the, uh, collective.

Complete and total, anal-retentive, obsessive control. Its the bully's way.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
This may be repeating the obvious, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
by grayhaired on Thursday August 15, @10:29AM (#4076654)
(User #314097 Info)
* If certain software becomes hostile to copy survivability, switch to more user friendly software.

* If a file format becomes undesirable for some reason, switch formats. The shift from GIF to JPEG was accelerated when CI$ wanted royalties for GIFs. if MPEG becomes untenable, switch to a format WMA/Windoze, etc, wouldn't tell from any other binary.

I think all people are proving is that they can muck up a file format or two. But there are a number of ways of encoding music after the fact. Just, you may need to convert your precious MPEGs to a more modern (and less policed) format.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Solution (Score:2)
by Johnny Mnemonic (`mdinsmore' `at' `mac.com') on Thursday August 15, @10:29AM (#4076657)
(User #176043 Info)

I'm sure that posters after this one will highlight the solution presented. I just want to add this: when did our computers stop working for us, and change to us having to work for them?

And if that yahoo can't get the solutions to work, I hope he thinks about a Mac, or Linux, for each CD (of his own music! already encoded, even!) that he has to reload. If his time is worth something, that Mac looks cheaper every day...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
The real problem (Score:4, Funny)
by smead on Thursday August 15, @10:32AM (#4076675)
(User #583466 Info)
The real problem is not that windows is controlling her, that she's trying to control windows. Anyone with any common sence knows that windows xp provides a superior user experience and that it's rock solid reliability eliminates the need for tenous reinstalls. Not only is it never neccessary, but only hackers, pirats, and the dark forces of the universe would try to get control over windows for their own selfish gain. In my opinion, she got what she deserved. That filthy evildoer
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
So don't use WMP (Score:1)
by joshua404 on Thursday August 15, @10:32AM (#4076677)
(User #590829 Info)
Windows Media Player sucks, anyway. Use CDex. It's open source.

Or even better, don't use Windows at all.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
you people using WMP... (Score:2, Interesting)
by prisen (jbruns AT mmcable DOT com) on Thursday August 15, @10:33AM (#4076681)
(User #578061 Info)
..need to get the following tool, ASAP: CDex [sourceforge.net].

This [vorbis.com] format might tickle your fancy a bit more than WMA ever did. It sure as heck sounds better.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
You can always turn it off ... (Score:2, Interesting)
by slagdogg on Thursday August 15, @10:33AM (#4076682)
(User #549983 Info)
From the MS web site:

When this feature is enabled, each track that is copied to your computer is a licensed file that cannot be played on any other computer unless you backup and restore your licenses on the other computer.

Even if you forget to disable the feature, there is still a way to transfer the licenses. It's not as if they are forcing it on anyone. Seems pretty fair to me ...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Raising the awareness with the general public (Score:2)
by philkerr on Thursday August 15, @10:34AM (#4076696)
(User #180450 Info | http://www.plus24.com/)
It's nice, and refreshing, to see the mainstream media picking up on this.

We all know the pros and cons but your average jane/joe in the street doesn't. Without this message getting across to them with clear examples of what may/will happen we'll be shouting the message to ourselves.

If your local/national newspaper has a tech section where you can ask questions, drop them a line.

Get the word out!

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
RTFA, nothing to see here (Score:3, Insightful)
by Matey-O ({moc.MAPSnMAPSsMA ... ellimnhojleahcim}) on Thursday August 15, @10:35AM (#4076698)
(User #518004 Info | http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday February 19, @11:25AM)
Lessee:

1. 'When you first run Windows Media Player, it will ask if you want to keep copy protection on, and you can turn it off if you wish.'

and

2. 'We did anticipate this scenario and developed a tool to help them update their licenses: the Personal License Update Utility.'

What's the big deal here?

p.s. What's funny is, My Lyra requires a funky DRM'd MP3 format that only uses their propietary software to create it...those files won't work on anything else either. BUT, copy any kind fo WMA file directly to the CF card and it works fine.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
They Say Recovery is Easy...Yeah Right (Score:5, Insightful)
by Schlemphfer on Thursday August 15, @10:35AM (#4076703)
(User #556732 Info | http://www.vegan.com/)

According to Microsoft's lead product manager of Windows Digital Media:

There is still a way to get these licenses back and it is pretty easy using our Personal License Migration Service (PLMS), [which] was designed to address the exact situation you outline.

It's morning and I'm still feeling pretty alert, but even the acronym PLMS is enough to make me think, "this is going to be a gigantic pain in the ass." Would it be possible to come up with a more intimidating bit of tech-speak for a product's name?

More to the point, can you picture an inexperienced user having to track down the Personal License Migration Service utility and get it working? Just the name of it alone makes it sound like an afternoon's project.

Looks like Windows users who want to maintain rights to their music libraries are going to have to regularly clear some rather intimidating hurdles every time they buy a new system or reformat their drive. I wonder how Apple will handle the same situation. Somehow, I can't picture Steve announcing iPLMS at an upcoming MacWorld ;)

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Windows? What about Linux? (Score:1, Funny)
by Jacek Poplawski on Thursday August 15, @10:35AM (#4076708)
(User #223457 Info)
DRM has been included in Linux Kernel a long time ago. Aren't you scared?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Now imagine if you paid for those tracks (Score:4, Interesting)
by RailGunner (Rail_Gunner@hotmail.com) on Thursday August 15, @10:35AM (#4076711)
(User #554645 Info)
While I feel somewhat* sorry for the person that lost all their music files, at least they (presumably) didn't pay for them, so really it's just an inconvenience to re-copy their cd's to their hard drive.

But what if they had paid for them? Even a trivial amount like 25 cents adds up extremely quick. At least in their case, though, they still have the files. Hard drives fail.. the Windows Registry can be corrupted.. what then? Do you re-purchase all the files you've already bought once?

This should be yet another compelling reason to dump Windows in favor of Linux on your PC's.

* I can't feel too sorry for anyone using Windows Media Player Spyware.. Is it really Microsoft's business that I spend a large part of my work day writing code and listening to (legal) mp3 rips of my Ozzy Osbourne cd's?

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Bring it on (Score:3, Insightful)
by philipsblows on Thursday August 15, @10:37AM (#4076723)
(User #180703 Info)

I've made similar comments like this before, but in this case it is worth repeating (well, I'll find out whether it is).

The sooner the general public begins to experience the real issues behind DRM, DMCA, Palladium, UCITA (or whatever they're calling it this week), etc, the sooner the issue will rise to the importance of other issues that get real (ie political, financial) attention.

It will probably be painful for a while, since the entire public won't realize the impact of this sort of thing at first, but give it time... the general public let their opinion be known about DivX and it didn't take long for CC to back down and toss that idea (or at least table it for a while).

This too shall pass? I hope so.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Who uses WMF's anyway? (Score:1)
by GuNgA-DiN (Zebra-Killer@serengetti.nu) on Thursday August 15, @10:37AM (#4076725)
(User #17556 Info)
If this happened to my MP3 collection I'd be pissed. But, what do you expect with WMF's? You use Microsoft's formats -- you get held to Microsoft's rules! That is why the RIAA and friends HATE MP3's... because it is format that they can't control. Just keep encoding your shit to MP3 or OGG format and you won't have to worry about this sort of thing happening (at least until Palladium comes along!)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
do you own the music you've bought? (Score:1)
by chenmorning on Thursday August 15, @10:42AM (#4076763)
(User #582524 Info)
Obviously Microsoft is trying to shape our view of owning music in a undesirable way(for us, or a desirable way for recording industry). This is very similar to their logic of software usage. That is, when you've paid $199 for Windows XP, you don't actually own it, you just paid for the rights to use it for a certain period of time on a specific machine. This is what licencing is all about--not only telling you what you can do and not, but also put hard restrictions with technology.

When applying this logic to Music, it's absolutely against music lover's interests. When you've bought a CD and converted the music to WMA 7.x format in your PC, you DO NOT own the copy anymore. Instead, whoever controls the licence controls your usage since you normally cannot fiddle with the licence itself. In all, use Windows Media if you want to lose control of the music you own and want to being tracked each time you copy, rip and so on(Technologically they have no problems tracking you with controlled licence and internet connections mentioned in the article). Otherwise, stick with MP3.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Look at the bigger picture here people! (Score:4, Insightful)
by gosand on Thursday August 15, @10:42AM (#4076764)
(User #234100 Info | http://www.poundingsand.com/)
Some people are saying "Don't use WMP", or "Yeah, but you can turn it off", or "RTFM!".

While those things may apply to this case, DRM is a scary thing where it would be very easy to make it so it doesn't matter what app you use, DRM could be embedded in your processor (Palladium). They could make it so that you can't turn off DRM in the apps, or there is no manual to read, it will all just be built in so you don't have to "worry" about it.

And since when did it become a REQUIREMENT to be connected to the internet to listen to music that you own?! Sure, internet access is more widespread than ever, but required? That's BS. That just means that Microsoft is watching and controlling what you are listening to. How long before it goes beyond that to cover every app on your system?

I talk to some of my friends about this stuff, and they think it will never happen. They also don't know about the DMCA and the CDPDTA-E-I-E-I-O. This shit is real, and it is very scary. I have heard people say "Well, I don't care if they know what I do." Well dammit, I DO! It is none of their business, and that is the first step down a long, dark path. You want to tell them what you are doing, what web sites you are visiting, where you are shopping? Fine. Opt-in. But don't force that on everyone. Some people may actually want some of these dumbass services that Microsoft and other companies offer. Maybe they like targeted advertising. I don't, and I should not have to jump through hoops to NOT get it.

Think it won't happen? Who is going to stop them?

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
The Whole Truth? (Score:1, Redundant)
by Captain Large Face ([slashdot] [at] [ ... nathangrant.info]) on Thursday August 15, @10:42AM (#4076765)
(User #559804 Info | http://www.davidjonathangrant.info/)

If you read the article fully, it can be seen that the music can be migratted across using a few simple steps. It's not as if the music was lost for good...

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
DRM is guaranteed to fail, except for Microsoft. (Score:5, Insightful)
by Featureless on Thursday August 15, @10:42AM (#4076767)
(User #599963 Info)
Think of it like a cage. It's meant to let us see what's inside, but not let what's inside get out. It can never effectively be used to get back what's escaped. And something only needs to escape from it once to be outside, fruitful and multiplying and all that, forever.

It's an absurdly complicated cage, with hundreds of potential points of failure. Even if it's the best designed cage in the world, with encryption and booby-traps at every joint and hindge, someone in a good lab in Hong Kong is going to arrange a jailbreak anyway. And you know it's not going to be the best designed cage in the world. It's going to suck, maybe slightly less than CSS sucked.

Once the content is out of it, that's it. You can't make a computer that refuses legacy data and applications (mp3s). That might be what Hollywood wants, but it's the only thing Microsoft can never do. At least not in the next 10-20 years - they'd have to work up to it very gradually. And even then, there are a million problems.

The real purpose of DRM is to act as a shield against free software technologies interoperating with commercial products. MS has been considering fighting compatible free software with patents and bribes and EULA suits (and probably would, but for the awkwardness of doing it during their anti-trust trial), but by far its best weapon is to pretend to ally with the content people. They, after all, own Washington, and they were the geniuses that engineered the DMCA. The law that will make Samba, or the encrypted-WindowsDRM-filesystem module, or any number of other enabling technologies illegal... because it's trying to "bypass Microsoft's access control features."

People will point out that the DMCA has provisions for allowing interoperability. That's right, it does. That's called a "bait exception." Sort of like the distributor price caps in the California electric utility deregulation, they're there for show; they can have no real effect. DeCSS, after all, is meant to allow free softare to interoperate with DVD's. But tell that to all the people in court all around the world right now. When deciding on whether there's a "significant non-infringing use," it turns out that it's quite easy to make a non-savvy judge (and how few of them are savvy?) believe the worst. DVDs are case in point.

DRM will accomplish none of its stated goals. But it will be great for Microsoft. Paladium is a big deal to them because it will be the first Windows which can't be emulated by Wine, for instance, or interoperated with by other software, without risking the appearance that one is interoperating in order to open the cage. And if you mess with cages, you know we're not just talking about a civil trial and bankruptcy. We're talking about a good long stretch in federal prison.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
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How is this Microsoft's job? (Score:2)
by liquidsin on Thursday August 15, @10:43AM (#4076773)
(User #398151 Info | http://www.fruitsofinsanity.com/)
There is still a way to get these licenses back and it is pretty easy using our Personal License Migration Service (PLMS), [which] was designed to address the exact situation you outline. The customer just has to be connected to the internet, then they can automatically restore their licenses just by playing the music files in question.

How exactly did Microsoft get the job of maintaining my licenses? If I pay for a cd and rip it to mp3 for my own use, why do I need MS to "license" me the ability to play it? They didn't pay for the cd, I did! How is it that the duty of maintaining my licenses for non-MS data can belong to MS? This is just silly...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Personal Rights Management? (Score:1)
by Titusdot Groan on Thursday August 15, @10:45AM (#4076788)
(User #468949 Info)
There is still a way to get these licenses back and it is pretty easy using our Personal License Migration Service (PLMS) ...

We did anticipate this scenario and developed a tool to help them update their licenses: the Personal License Update Utility.

this box was called the 'Enable Personal Rights Management' check box.

Why are all these "features" that are designed to restrict my fair use rights for my legally acquired music or other sound files in order to benefit of a multi-conglomerate music oligarcy all have names that include the word "Personal" in it.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
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Disable it! (Score:2, Informative)
by Leto2 on Thursday August 15, @10:46AM (#4076794)
(User #113578 Info | http://ivo.nu/)
From the article:

"You can also choose to turn off copy protection when you create your music collection, which can be done easily in any version of [WMP7.x or later].

When you first run Windows Media Player, it will ask if you want to keep copy protection on, and you can turn it off if you wish. If you missed that dialog box, it is still easy to turn off copy protection by going into the Tools|Options menu. Click on the Copy Music tab, and under Copy Settings, uncheck the 'Protect Content' box. In previous versions, this box was called the 'Enable Per sonal Rights Management' check box." Turning off copy protection would seem the best idea.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Patient: Doc, it hurts when I do this... (Score:2)
by zerofoo on Thursday August 15, @10:46AM (#4076795)
(User #262795 Info)
Doc: Well don't do it!

Seriously, why the hell is anyone using WMF? MP3 has wide hardware support, obviously great software suppport, and sounds great. What compelling argument is there for using WMF? Some people claim superior sound quality.....just ask the guy in the story how good his music sounds since he can't play any of his files.

-ted
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
What ever happened to fair use? (Score:1)
by beefguts on Thursday August 15, @10:46AM (#4076796)
(User #529522 Info)
I own hundreds of CDs and records which I paid for from which the record industry and musicians got their rightful dues. If I want to convert them into MP3's and cram them into an ipod or just have a couple of thousand songs randomly playing while I work on the computer, surely I don't have to pay for that song again just because I want a different media format. I'm not paying for the plastic they're printed on, I'm paying for the music and that music is the same regardless of the media format. Microsoft can't act as the arbiter for Fair Use. They're not even in the music industry (as far as I know)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
I don't think it's too bad (Score:1)
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 15, @10:50AM (#4076829)
The problem of preventing piracy is difficult. The way Windows is doing it here doesn't seem too bad.

If you read the artice, it metions that Microsoft knew that this sort of problem would arise, and took the time to develop some services and tools to fix the situation.

The article says that if you're connected to the internet, then most of the time it will just fix itself. WMP will somehow realize that you lost the special security license files that authorize you to play the music, but that you did once have them. So then it just downloads them from the net.

That won't always work (if the WMP versions before and after are different, or maybe if you changed your hardware), but Microsoft also said that they developed a special tool that you can run before wiping you system or upgrading your hardware that will record these licences for you, and let you restore them.

We did anticipate this scenario and developed a tool to help them update their licenses: the Personal License Update Utility. This must be run before they upgrade their system or transfer their music files to a new PC.


So they seem to have done a bunch of work to solve this problem, except ofcorse the most obvious thing: informing the user. That utility up there may work great but you have to run it before you make any changes so you need to know about it. That's the biggest problem.

Oh, and also this WMP behaviour can be completly turned off. Somewhere in the options you can disable it, so that it just plays music normally. It was unclear in the article whether turning this off after WMP refuses to play something would work.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Why DivX died? (Score:5, Interesting)
by jvmatthe on Thursday August 15, @10:52AM (#4076851)
(User #116058 Info | http://curmudgeon.linuxgames.com/)
The customer just has to be connected to the internet, then they can automatically restore their licenses just by playing the music files in question.

I have been told, and I believe even read in dead-tree publications, that the reason the DivX plan died was that people were creeped out by having to dial someone up and transfer information. Even with the *promise* of anonymity, this is guaranteed to scare some people away, since they worry "What if?" (Like "What if the company goes bust and they sell their database to someone that doesn't make the same promise?" or "What if they get hacked and someone takes my credit card number or personal viewing habits?")

Add into this that much of media innovation and format decisions are apparently driven by the porn production industry, and the reason for media without a tether to home base becomes more clear. No one wanted to buy a DivX disc that phoned home to validate and no porn movie maker really wanted to go that route because they know their audience.

Having to phone home has got to be the Achilles' Heel for this kind of stuff. I sure as hell don't want it, and I imagine most people would feel the same way, even if they aren't watching dirty movies.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re-authorize EVERY music file individually?!? (Score:2, Interesting)
by Tyrone Slothrop on Thursday August 15, @10:52AM (#4076853)
(User #522703 Info)
"The customer just has to be connected to the internet, then they can automatically restore their licenses just by playing the music files in question."

Does every music file have to be re-licensed individually? Can you imagine doing that with, say, 20 or 30 gigs of 3 minute long songs?

This simply will never work in the long run. Customers will give up in frustration and use some other way to listen to music.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Alternative to WMA (Score:1)
by thesadmac on Thursday August 15, @10:52AM (#4076854)
(User #599744 Info)
I was under the impression there was a newer format that was completely free, but also provided consistently better quality than both WMA and MP3. I read a review of it on Tom's Hardware [tomshardware.com] I'm sure. But can't for the life of me remember the name of it.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
This article is pointless (Score:1)
by mattyohe on Thursday August 15, @10:53AM (#4076857)
(User #517995 Info)
IF you do decide to use WMP, you should at least know enough about it. The article says itself "You can also choose to turn off copy protection when you create your music collection, which can be done easily in any version of [WMP7.x or later]." so why is this a topic of discussion? The story is a tale of someone who didn't know what they were doing... why does this matter to me?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Unprotecting content? (Score:3, Informative)
by Bouncings (ken@@@kenkinder...com) on Thursday August 15, @10:53AM (#4076864)
(User #55215 Info | http://kenkinder.com/)
What is this business of just turning DRM off? For those of you who didn't read the article/don't remember,
When you first run Windows Media Player, it will ask if you want to keep copy protection on, and you can turn it off if you wish. If you missed that dialog box, it is still easy to turn off copy protection by going into the Tools|Options menu. Click on the Copy Music tab, and under Copy Settings, uncheck the 'Protect Content' box.
Ok, so you can turn off the "screw me in the ass" option? I'd like to know, what's the catch? Will this feature be going away in future versions? Someone, please fill me in.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
This option can be turned OFF you know (Score:1)
by Winterblink on Thursday August 15, @10:56AM (#4076885)
(User #575267 Info | http://winterblink.com/)
"By default, Windows Media Player [7.x] is configured to protect content that is copied from a CD to your computer from unauthorized use by using Personal Rights Management. When this feature is enabled, each track that is copied to your computer is a licensed file that cannot be played on any other computer unless you backup and restore your licenses on the other computer"

Notice the "by default" bit. If anyone here had actually USED WMP's copy from cd options you'd know you can turn that flag off completely, letting you do whatever you want with those .wma files you create.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Funny (Score:2, Interesting)
by Seawolf359 on Thursday August 15, @10:57AM (#4076899)
(User #584185 Info)
Funny how you only see this with winblows machines. No linux, mac, BeOS, amiga, dos, or abicus user ever has the issue. *softly pats his new iMac and SuSE machine* I know it's been said over and over and over again but I will just say it again, M$ seems to think it knows whats best for the user. Of course using WMP was a mistake to copy music but thats beside the point. Software of this nature should never do this. The user nows what he/she is doing and if its illegal and thats between the user and the copyright holder. Anyway I am going to shutup now. This is a pointless rant. Windows is going to be like the US government and decide to police the world at everyone elses expense.

My suggestion. Get a Mac. Its a UNIX and doesnt have the bull floating thru it like any PC with windows installed on it. Even a linux user should be able to admit that Mac would be the simpler move for a person use to windows. Linux is great for the more advanced users.

Honestly I think its time windows users started complaining about software like this. It wouldnt sell on the open market. Why attach it to a OS? Or maybe thats reason enough.

Oh well.
   
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Funny by dd301 (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @11:45AM
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  • Re:Funny by datarat (Score:1) Thursday August 15, @12:56PM
  • Re:Funny by Shuh (Score:1) Friday August 16, @08:21PM
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Currently you can disable most of these features. (Score:1, Redundant)
by Zapdos on Thursday August 15, @10:58AM (#4076901)
(User #70654 Info)
But they are built in, and you of course know that there are plans, and the required “Critical Updates” have already been written to completely remove your ability to disable these "Features". This will occur when the economic and political climates are right.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
XPerience? More like XPunged........ (Score:2)
by Ride-My-Rocket (vejitasweeps@hotmail.com) on Thursday August 15, @10:59AM (#4076914)
(User #96935 Info)
Btw, just so I know what to use and what crap to avoid -- does Roxio EZCD Creator 5.0 have DRM stuff built in?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
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