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CD Copy Stopper
TechnologyPosted by CmdrTaco on Thursday August 22, @11:05AM
from the going-to-extremes dept.
CTho9305 writes "Technology Review has an article about a new CD and DVD copy protection system by Doc-Witness, where the disc itself has a smart card on it. The card checks if a request is valid, and then returns a key to decrypt the contents of the disc. It apparently works with standard drives."


 

 
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CD Copy Stopper | Log in/Create an Account | Top | 629 comments | Search Discussion
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The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
(1) | 2 | 3 (Slashdot Overload: CommentLimit 50)
BIg Brother... (Score:1)
by sfled (sfled@@@yahoo...com) on Thursday August 22, @11:07AM (#4118746)
(User #231432 Info | http://www.animai.com/)
...is watching me copy?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
We've been over this... (Score:1)
by swfranklin on Thursday August 22, @11:08AM (#4118752)
(User #578324 Info)
eDrugTrader said it pretty well yesterday [slashdot.org].
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
so.... (Score:2, Funny)
by tx_mgm on Thursday August 22, @11:08AM (#4118755)
(User #82188 Info)
3....2....1....
ok, wheres the crack for this?
=)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Didn't you read!?!? (Score:5, Funny)
    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 22, @11:13AM (#4118803)
    It is impracticable to crack since it is hardware based

    See! Uncrackable! Just like that CSS thingy!
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Re:Didn't you read!?!? by roman_mir (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @02:11PM
    • Well... by BlackGriffen (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @03:09PM
      • Re:Well... by Alsee (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @04:41PM
        • Re:Well... by Alsee (Score:1) Friday August 23, @10:07AM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Oh boy (Score:3, Funny)
by ArmenTanzarian (`and_dillon' `at' `yahoo.com') on Thursday August 22, @11:09AM (#4118759)
(User #210418 Info)
I can't wait for the ridiculously easy fix for this one. All you have to do is spit on it and it not only copies, but increases the quality!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Spoofed? (Score:1)
by rmadmin (rmalekNO@SPAMhomecode.org) on Thursday August 22, @11:09AM (#4118764)
(User #532701 Info | http://www.homecode.org/)
I think its Mozilla that has the ability to forge its client information to a webservers logs. So uhm, why couldn't CD ripping/DVD ripping software impliment this feature. I'm sure someone will figure it out, and make it work. (Atleast this one requires more than just a sharpie marker to crack)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Spoofed? by L. VeGas (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @11:15AM
  • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
I bet $20... (Score:5, Funny)
by swaic (swaic@excite.com) on Thursday August 22, @11:09AM (#4118766)
(User #541592 Info)
Saying it will be defeated within 30 days. Any takers. Also, $25 saying it will be by a Russian.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:I bet $20... by Geldon (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @11:10AM
    • Re:I bet $20... (Score:5, Funny)
    by st0rmshad0w on Thursday August 22, @11:12AM (#4118797)
    (User #412661 Info)
    Heh.

    More like within 30 minutes. And it'll be a high school kid.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Re:I bet $20... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @11:17AM
      • Re:I bet $20... by PW2 (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @02:17PM
      • Unlikely by Safety Cap (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @02:05PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:I bet $20... by SB5 (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @01:20PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:I bet $20... by ivan256 (Score:3) Thursday August 22, @11:30AM
    • Well the truth is (Score:5, Insightful)
    by dnoyeb on Thursday August 22, @12:02PM (#4119293)
    (User #547705 Info)
    The truth of security is that its inversly proportional to the number of people with a desire to circumvent it.

    It will NEVER work in any form for the music industry. For the software industry its just a matter of how popular your software is...
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re:I bet $20... (Score:5, Informative)
    by heathm (heathmike@hotmail.com) on Thursday August 22, @12:18PM (#4119421)
    (User #174421 Info | http://www.effinitylabs.com/~heathm/)
    Well that would be a stupid bet.

    A few years ago I worked for a smart card company and we thought about doing this very thing. We realized very quickly, however, that the key securely stored on the smart card has to get passed out of the smart card and into software to be useable. Once the key is in software, it is vulnerable and can be hacked to decrypt the contents of the CD.

    If everything were done in hardware and the key was transferred securely through hardware it would be much more difficult to hack the key, but who cares? After passing the key securely from the smart card to the decryption hardware, the hardware has to put out a stream of unencrypted data to make the content actually usable and the data can be recorded AFTER being unencrypted. What if the hardware outputs the data in analog format? Big deal. It's a high quality stream so we record it again and digitize it and we really haven't lost that much quality wise.

    Adding a smart card to a CD or DVD doesn't really make it more secure. It just makes us jump through more hoops.

    Of course, this whole post is probably illegal anyway due to the DMCA. I would post anonymously but the karma is worth time in prison and $1/2 million fine.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Re:I bet $20... by Mr.Intel (Score:3) Thursday August 22, @12:46PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:I bet $20... by alphatool (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @12:49PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:I bet $20... by roman_mir (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @02:04PM
    • Even the analog degradation can be beaten by xant (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @03:07PM
    • Re:I bet $20... by fishbowl (Score:3) Thursday August 22, @03:22PM
      • Re:I bet $20... (Score:5, Funny)
      by evilpenguin (mschwarz.At.sherbtel.Dot.net) on Thursday August 22, @01:20PM (#4119930)
      (User #18720 Info | http://www.multitool.net/)
      As the poster pointed out, at some point it goes to your eyes and ears. This is the so-called "analog hole." You can capture the output at this point and re-digitize it. Sure, there is some tiny loss of quality, but you now have an unencrypted data stream you can reproduce indefinitely.

      I'm just waiting for the day when someone tries to pass legislation that require chips in our heads where every time we think about a movie, our debit card is automatically charged.

      Perfect control, protection of intellectual property rights. Surely economic interests are more important than the commons of ideas?

      Read Lawrence Lessig: "Code and Other Laws of Cyberspace" and "The Future of Ideas: The Fate of the Commons in a Connected World." Be concerned.
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:I bet $20... by Cruciform (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @01:11PM
  • Re:I bet $20... by cduffy (Score:1) Friday August 23, @12:24AM
  • 3 replies beneath your current threshold.
Attractive? (Score:3, Funny)
by fiftyLou on Thursday August 22, @11:09AM (#4118768)
(User #472705 Info)
The technology is highly attractive...

Perhaps, but that website sure isn't.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
CD Costs (Score:3, Interesting)
by DavidLeblond (dcleblond&nc,rr,com) on Thursday August 22, @11:10AM (#4118780)
(User #267211 Info | http://home.nc.rr.com/dcleblond/)
How will this effect the cost of the CD media? It doesn't sound very cost effective to me, seeing how it would be a matter of minutes before someone wrote a program to crack it. I'm sure the developers know this too.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Something smells here (Score:2, Insightful)
by PDXRedcat on Thursday August 22, @11:11AM (#4118789)
(User #29992 Info)
All I see in the pictures is some silk-screen printing ontop of a normal CD. No Hi-Res graphics to actually get a close up look of this smart card CD. Exactly what platforms is this dynamic encryption supposed to work with? Just Windows, or what? I highly doubt my car CD player has enough processing power to play the CD.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Could be tough to defeat (Score:2)
by JeanBaptiste on Thursday August 22, @11:12AM (#4118794)
(User #537955 Info)
Usually I say it is trivial to bypass almost any security measure, but after reading the article, it sounds like this one could be tough to crack, as these are not 'normal' off the shelf CDs

Fortunately for /. type people, I bet these CDs will be expensive enough that they wont be used en masse by CD publishers...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
what? (Score:4, Insightful)
by supernova87a on Thursday August 22, @11:12AM (#4118795)
(User #532540 Info)
How can this possibly be claimed to work with standard drives?

Our dvd players read the optical stream from the disc, and then decode it video out. What is this chip supposed to do -- decrypt on the fly and send a new optical pattern to the read head? I don't think so.

I think someone is trying to push a new kind of dvd drive that requires the discs to have smart cards...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:what? Explained by hugecrow (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @11:17AM
    • Re:what? (Score:4, Informative)
    by gargle on Thursday August 22, @11:20AM (#4118879)
    (User #97883 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
    "What is this chip supposed to do -- decrypt on the fly and send a new optical pattern to the read head? I don't think so. "

    Well, yes apparently:

    The technology works by turning an ordinary CD drive into a smart-card reader. A photodetector at the edge of the CD turns the drive’s laser light into electrical pulses, which travel to the embedded smart card and request the key. If the card deems the request legitimate, it returns the key as an electronic signal that an onboard light-emitting diode converts into light and beams back to the drive.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Re:what? by fireweaver (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @11:29AM
      • Re:what? by DustMagnet (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @01:14PM
    • Sign me up! by Mirk (Score:3) Thursday August 22, @11:47AM
    • Re:what? by oenone01 (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @12:32PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:what? by SanLouBlues (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @12:35PM
      • Re:what? by ahecht (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @08:37PM
    • Re:what? by Fizzlewhiff (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @01:32PM
    • Balancing the CD by dlbowm (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @04:59PM
    • Re:what? by volkerdi (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @08:44PM
    Re:what? (Score:4, Insightful)
    by Biolo on Thursday August 22, @11:26AM (#4118935)
    (User #25082 Info)
    You're thinking too linearly. This can't work on audio CD's, but I imagine they are just aiming at
    data CD's (and DVD's coming soon if you believe them).

    There will be a piece of authentication code in the installer (or whatever). This will be responsible for interacting with the smartcard to send it that initial information pulse. It will then ask the drive to re-read the "smartcard area" of the disk until it gets a response (decryption key), and will use that to decrypt the rest of the disk. Since DVD drives can run code also they will be able to use this same scheme there.

    'course all the Warez'ers will have to do is replace the initial installer code once they've accessed the drypt key, so I give new titles a week after they are released before there are cracked versions going about.

    One worrying question - are they getting all the power for the smartcard from that laser pulse? Really? Probably means a battery, so your CD or DVD now has an even more limited lifetime. Tinker with the battery size and Hollywood now has a way to program in obsolescence into that new DVD, forcing you to buy a new copy!

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Re:what? by Coplan (Score:3) Thursday August 22, @12:16PM
      • Re:what? by Jetson (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @01:54PM
      • Re:what? by Rares Marian (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @02:38PM
      • Re:what? by Alsee (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @03:44PM
      • Re:what? by karlm (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @04:13PM
    • Re:what? by Sylver Dragon (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @12:28PM
    • Re:what? by DNIK (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @12:32PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:what? by Trifthen (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @01:40PM
    • Re:what? by nahdude812 (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @02:31PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:what? by SJS (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @03:10PM
    • Re:what? by ReTay (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @06:41PM
    • Re:what? by Inode Jones (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @06:54PM
    • Re:what? by p_trinli (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @11:25PM
  • It is compatible, but does not prevent copying by eples (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @12:13PM
  • Re:what? by Izmunuti (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @12:18PM
  • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
Comparison to WinXP copy protection (Score:3, Insightful)
by McCart42 on Thursday August 22, @11:12AM (#4118798)
(User #207315 Info | http://home.cwru.edu/~mxm167/)
Granted, Windows XP had nothing this advanced on the disc itself, but the methods of circumventing this new protection device will likely be the same as the ways WinXP's product activation was circumvented. Just reverse engineer the code, find the references to the smart chip, and remove those references. Granted, one won't be able to just "copy the disc", but cracked ISOs can still be theoretically distributed. It'll be interesting to watch.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Re:Comparison to WinXP copy protection (Score:4, Insightful)
    by Erasmus Darwin on Thursday August 22, @11:23AM (#4118910)
    (User #183180 Info)
    "Granted, one won't be able to just "copy the disc", but cracked ISOs can still be theoretically distributed."

    Sure. But remember that copy protection doesn't have to completely prevent copying to be effective. Instead, it merely has to make the legal purchase more attractive than the copyright infriged copy, at least to some consumers.

    In this case, it sounds like each and every DVD would have to be cracked by someone with a good deal of skill and possibly some special equipment. Compare that to "cracking" CDs, where you can get pre-made tools that handle all the effort of ripping CDs, encoding them as mp3s, and even naming the files to match the CD info.

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Comparison to WinXP copy protection by Mitchell Mebane (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @11:27AM
Company claims unbreakable copy protection. (Score:1, Insightful)
by SpanishInquisition (sikdude at yahoo dot com) on Thursday August 22, @11:12AM (#4118799)
(User #127269 Info | http://www.mp3.com/Crastillon/ | Last Journal: Monday August 27, @04:45PM)
Film at 11.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
They're Destroying It (Score:5, Insightful)
by KelsoLundeen (kelsolundeen@hotmail.com) on Thursday August 22, @11:12AM (#4118800)
(User #454249 Info)
Maybe it's just me, but does it dawn on no one -- at least no one at the RIAA and perhaps the MPAA (Jack "Maddog ... Grrrrrrr!" Valenti in particular) that they (and by "they" I mean the RIAA and the MPAA) are slowly destroying the promise (so-called, of course) of digital technology?

All this stuff -- from half-assed watermarking, to government-sanctioned hack attacks on 14 year-old Kazaa users, threatening to throw them in federal high security lockups -- all this stuff is destroying what it's attempting to preserve.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • What makes you think they care? by paranoic (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @11:24AM
  • You don't get it by Wind_Walker (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @11:26AM
    • Re:They're Destroying It (Score:5, Insightful)
    by Colz Grigor on Thursday August 22, @11:27AM (#4118955)
    (User #126123 Info | http://www.miscreants.org/)
    Would that it were so...

    Remember that the 14-year-old Kazaa users tend to still be significantly more intelligent than the average population.

    Anyone below average scares the crap out of me and, by definition, that's 50% of everyone.

    With Microsoft and Dell making computers that any idiot could buy and use (Jeez... just take a look at Dell's spokesperson!), we'll actually have at least half the population buying these copy-protected CDs without thinking twice about Fair Use.

    So much for voting with out wallets. We're going to actually have to vote with our votes during every upcoming election. Our best course of action is to educate those that are educable and motivate them to cast their votes every time they have a chance.

    It's society's own apathy that's going to wind up allowing ..AA to kill digital content.

    ::Colz Grigor

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • And they just don't learn - or do they? by BlueboyX (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @11:29AM
  • Re:They're Destroying It by SirSlud (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @11:32AM
    • Re:They're Destroying It (Score:5, Insightful)
    by Arcturax on Thursday August 22, @11:38AM (#4119083)
    (User #454188 Info)
    More like they are doing all they can to stop the inevitable. Their business model fails with today's technology and they know it and are doing whatever they can to squeeze what little they still can from it. Instead of embracing the technology and working the problem of making a new buisiness model around it, they are thrashing to and fro as they slowly die, doing anything to extend their life a little longer.

    Case in point... last weekend I was at Conglomeration (nice mid sized sci-fi con held near Lousiville) and attended a panel by the directors of the home made movie "Rock and Roll Starship". I brought up computer technology and he told me that since the advent of things like iMovie and companies like Adobe and Apple making what was once high end movie software cheap enough for the masses, that the number of people who are interested in starting their own independant movie making groups has skyrocketed. He said that anymore, movie making is going more and more independant and it is only a matter of time before Hollywood loses control to groups of kids who are able to make their own films and put them up on the internet or burn them to DVD and sell them at cons.

    True, the flashiest looking stuff will always come from big budget Hollywood, but independant film makers are going to catch up enough to make some stuff which looks pretty nice on their own. That and some of the independant stuff is pretty damn good story wise, better so than a lot of Hollywood fluff.

    In fact, I was able to see a rough cut of their second movie and comment on it, to influence the final version, which was very cool! Their first movie came out in 1997, had shaky camera work, Dr. Who like special effects and the sound was a bit buzzy.

    This next one, though a rough cut, already looked a lot better. The sound hadn't been cleaned up yet and there were only a few "test" effects, but from what there was in there the new movie will look as professional as something that Hollywood might put out.

    Times are changing and you will see more and more of this as time goes on. Hollywood had better prepare itself, because the computer is going to bring on the age of the independant film, and nothing they do is going to stop it.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:They're Destroying It by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @11:52AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Re:They're Destroying It by DLR (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @12:15PM
  • Let's take a quick vote on that by Bastian (Score:2) Thursday August 22, @12:59PM
  • Re:They're Destroying It by andcal (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @05:07PM
  • You're kidding, right? by Tyler Durden (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @11:36AM
  • 4 replies beneath your current threshold.
CD-ROM drive recall announced (Score:3, Funny)
by PseudoThink on Thursday August 22, @11:12AM (#4118801)
(User #576121 Info)
"Please return your drive to the manufacturer so that we may upgrade it to be compatible with new and exciting technology that has become available! Don't miss your chance to make full use of this new technology, because it really is better!"
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
I wonder (Score:1)
by stupor on Thursday August 22, @11:13AM (#4118802)
(User #165265 Info | http://www.bfhd.org/~law/)

if they make as great a light show in a microwave as a regular CD does...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Impracticable?!! (Score:2)
by Bonker on Thursday August 22, @11:13AM (#4118808)
(User #243350 Info | http://www.furinkan.net/)
From Doc Witness's homepage:

It is impracticable to
crack since it is hardware based and is
based on dynamic protection. Unlike
competition it is not based on passive
protection (that is easily cracked)
or remote activation (that is both offensive
to customer's privacy and easily cracked).

Uhm. Okay guys. If I was a record producer who was living with (the very real) fear that my job was about to go away because of digital copying, the line above would make me think twice about using your technology.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
smart card? (Score:1)
by tetro on Thursday August 22, @11:13AM (#4118812)
(User #545711 Info)
So is this the smart thing to do? It seems as if more CD space would be needed for this added software and encryption. What if a CD needed all 80 minutes for the album? If you have to install this "smart card" reader in order to play a stupid CD, I think this would just deter customers from buying it and just let them download them instead.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
and next month we'll see.... (Score:3, Funny)
by sirinek on Thursday August 22, @11:14AM (#4118813)
(User #41507 Info | Last Journal: Friday January 18, @02:26PM)


    new encryption scheme
baby oops i cracked it again
    more britney copies!

siri
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
ugh. (Score:3, Informative)
by garcia on Thursday August 22, @11:14AM (#4118815)
(User #6573 Info | http://supplication.lazylightning.org/)
let's count how many posts say "the crackers will have this fixed in X days."

I don't understand where my ability to make backups for myself has gone. That's part of my right as an OWNER of a piece of software. I am ALLOWED to make a backup for myself.

With this, if the disc goes to crap or the "smart card" goes to shit what am I going to do? Can I call up Doc-Witness and say, "hey, send me my money so I can get a new CD?"
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
And my old drive? (Score:1)
by bre on Thursday August 22, @11:14AM (#4118817)
(User #590722 Info)
So if I want to install a program which comes on such a encrypted CD, I have to buy a new drive to read it? It's fine to read that this CD is compatible with older CDs, but when I'm not able to use it with my current drive this is a quite useless "feature"...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
how about legitimate reinstalling? (Score:2, Interesting)
by heby on Thursday August 22, @11:14AM (#4118818)
(User #256691 Info | http://www.heby.de)
so how will the smartcard know that you are legitimately trying to reinstall the software after an hd crash? cd rom drives (so far) have no mechanism of transfering data to the disk and telling it the cpuid or whatever other unique id of a computer.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Craziness! (Score:4, Insightful)
by case_igl on Thursday August 22, @11:14AM (#4118819)
(User #103589 Info | http://www.igl.net)
I have the kids that run around my house. They wake up, eat breakfast, and then go outside and collect all manner of nasty goo on their little fingers.

Then they come in for lunch, "play" computer, and muck up CDs. I'm not talking about my really important stuff that is snuggled away - I'm talking about the games they are alloyed to play...God forbid they get their hands on Warcraft 3!

I always make burnt copies of CDs for the kids to use, so that when they roll over it with the toy car and crack it I can just make a new one.

I know piracy is a problem for the industry, but it just sickens me at how legitimate fair use gets slaughtered for people like me!

And forget the "I won't be buying any of THESE CDs line" -- that only works until Toy Story 17 comes out on DVD....

Case
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
key management (Score:5, Insightful)
by russcoon on Thursday August 22, @11:14AM (#4118820)
(User #34224 Info | http://www.netWindows.org)
How quickly they forget:

If you are forced to distribute the secret in an insecure way, the game's over. Better yet. it only takes one read to copy the data.

I guess it's a nice idea that just misses the point.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Smart Card Security (Score:1)
by Blindman on Thursday August 22, @11:14AM (#4118821)
(User #36862 Info)
I thought that under certain circumstances smart cards have already been cracked. Additionally, this would still be suceptible to program patches that cause the program to not check for authentication. I guess this should at least make software publishers feel better even if it doesn't prevent copying.

Lastly, wouldn't this make it impossible to make a backup copy of a CD. I'm pretty sure that my burner doesn't write smart cards. Perhaps, they should just give everyone two copies of every piece of software, just in case.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Standard drives? (Score:1)
by thasmudyan ((thasmudyan) (at) (gmx.net)) on Thursday August 22, @11:16AM (#4118834)
(User #460603 Info | http://www.openrpg.org/)
Apparently it will not work with today's standard drives, as they are not capable of hardware-decrypting any data streams from CD. So this whole thing will only be successful if ALL player manufacturers comply and add that capability to their drives (or this capability is added on the operating system side for PCs). So the obligatory question is (again): would you rather buy a crippled DRM-ROM or a normal drive? And you can be sure of one thing: if this technology becomes mainstream, they RIAA _WILL_ make you pay per session or invalidate CDs after a certain time and you _WILL_ end up paying much more while having much less freedom of use!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Cost (Score:1)
by Hasie on Thursday August 22, @11:16AM (#4118835)
(User #316698 Info)
My biggest concern with something like this is: Who is going to pay for it? And the answer is: The user. So the user has to pay to have the way media can be used restricted.


Am I the only one who thinks that this doesn't make good business sense?

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:Cost by Dakisha (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @12:26PM
this is fantastic (Score:5, Insightful)
by GoatPigSheep on Thursday August 22, @11:17AM (#4118844)
(User #525460 Info)
(sarcasm)
YES! This is great news!

Thanks to this new technology, the price of CD's should plummet, as it will be impossible to rip them!

Finally, they have solved the problem of piracy and can now lower the price of CD's since they will not be 'losing money' anymore (a slow economy doesn't count)
(/sarcasm)
Yeah, right. I bet those greedy pigs will raise the price of cd's even more citing the need to produce 'anti-theft technology'
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Not for music (Score:2, Informative)
by djshaffer on Thursday August 22, @11:17AM (#4118845)
(User #595950 Info)
It looks like this is for software packages.

The installer communicates with the smart card to get permission and the decryption key needed to finish the install. So, reverse engineer the installer and run one legitimate install to capture the decryption key and you can make as many installs as you want.

It's a little more secure if the disk has to be in a drive to run the final software, and it expects to communicate with the smart card to authenticate authorization to run.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Cost, and where my marker ? (Score:1)
by USS.Spock on Thursday August 22, @11:17AM (#4118848)
(User #602532 Info | http://praveen-linux.8m.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday August 22, @11:55AM)
Hmm....very nice, what about the cost involved in such a setup, ok, so i can put it in my production line, but what's the additional cost ? How long before a simple marker gets rid of the copy protection ? Security is more of a process than a quick solution. If people wanna find a way to crack it, they definitely will, btw where is the video cleaner fluid of mine...he he he.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Sounds like the dongle argument (Score:1)
by msgmonkey on Thursday August 22, @11:18AM (#4118861)
(User #599753 Info)
This is the CD equivalent of a dongle.. yes the CD can't be cracked but since there is interaction between the CD and the reading device someone will find a way to hack the device instead. Look at the number of apps which "require" a dongle to work but have been easily cracked.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Like anything of this will work (Score:1)
by Ozor on Thursday August 22, @11:19AM (#4118872)
(User #592387 Info)
RCA out into my Tape deck, or Audio CD-r . Hi I just beat your protection. Come on people what are you going to try next.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Which User Agreement? (Score:3, Interesting)
by LadyGuardian (me AT ladyguardian DOT com) on Thursday August 22, @11:20AM (#4118877)
(User #568469 Info | http://www.ladyguardian.com/ | Last Journal: Monday March 25, @09:58AM)
FULLY TRANSPARENT to the consumer (as long as he or she keeps the user agreement).

This worries me. They even mention down below how static systems are easily cracked and how 'phone-home' is offensve to user privacy and still not solid. Which user agreement will they use? The one that inclides fair use or a new creation that disables any and all attempts to protect our investment?

I'm not a 'consumer' with gigs and gigs of stolen MP3's, but I am someone with backups of my legitimately bought copies. I have two siberian huskies that seem to love chewing on CD and DVD cases (I'll stop leaving them at the door, I promise) so these backups become invaluable.

Sadly, people who've read their benefits [doc-witness.com] section will realize that our right (yes, it is a right) to have legitimate back ups are tossed out the window...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Just keep the key (Score:2)
by javatips on Thursday August 22, @11:20AM (#4118882)
(User #66293 Info)
Their website is not very generous on details on how it work.

If no special hardware is needed to make it work, then it probably rely on software to do decrypt the disk.

The key used to descrypt the disk is sent to the computer when a legitimate request is made. Once you have the key, who is going to prevent you from keeping it and reuse it later.

How can they have dynamic keys if the CD-ROM is encrypted once?

It would also be probably easy to pose a reading request as legitimate and then decrypt the whole disk and store the cleartext ready to be burn on a new CD.

This kind of scheme may prevent M Smith from copying the disk, but M Cracker will find a way arround the protection in no time.

All copy protection scheme inveted as of yet were defeated. This one will go the same way.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Ok, but once I have the key... (Score:2)
by color of static (smasters@ieBOYSENee.org minus berry) on Thursday August 22, @11:20AM (#4118883)
(User #16129 Info | http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Friday January 04, @08:31AM)
Ok, they encrypt the data on the CD. Ok, I have to get the key from the smart card with the optical interface (really a cool bit of technology if you think about it). Ok, then I can unencrypt the CD. Now explain to me why I can't just keep this key, or even the unencrypted data around?
    If you are trying to protect an application (say a game), then I could see it require the use of the smart card, but it doesn't seem like it would be to hard to write a device driver wrapper around the CD-ROM driver that exists that will emulate this.
    Overall, very cool technology. In this instance it seems like it will do little more then keep honest people honest. Is that really of value to any publisher?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Two Problems (Score:1)
by DeLabarre on Thursday August 22, @11:21AM (#4118892)
(User #236800 Info)
One, this system will be crackable by hardcore pirates. Not legally, under the DMCA, but all the pirate has to do is intercept the decryption key coming off the embedded card, and decrypt the disk image in memory before burning the illegal copies.

Two -- hasn't the market already proven to the software publishers that tricky copy protection always limits sales? There's just tons of technology schemes to enforce licenses, from dongles to license files to whatnot -- but for mass market s/w (Word, NWN, Mavis Beacon, etc.), paying customers (the target market) will almost always go for the non-copy-protected alternatives (even if they don't intend to pirate the disks to all their friends).
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Copy protection for DATA as opposed to AUDIO? (Score:1)
by SmallFurryCreature (ddpv @ d d p v . n o - i p.com) on Thursday August 22, @11:21AM (#4118893)
(User #593017 Info)
Since some kind of key needs to be transmitted in order to decrypt the encrypted data I can't see how this would work with the standard audio players.

The only way this could work, unless I missed something, if a program knew that it had to get the decryption key from a certain place on the CD-rom.

What I am puzzled by, and the site does not explain, is what would prevent anyone from reading the key transmitten then creating a cracked program that gets the key from some other place. This doesn't seem to much different from using a dongle and we all know why they have disappeared. To bloody inconvenient. It reminds me of the old dos gaming days, when legitimate gamers had to type a word from a certain page every so often while people with illegal version just could keep playing.

This in fact seems sligtly worse since how would the CD be capable of reliable recording on how many "different" machines at the "same" time I have the program installed? MS might not like it but it is perfectly legal for me to install software on more then 1 machine so long as it is not on more then 1 at the same time.

Oh well no doubt this will go the way of all the other protection schemes. The legitimate users pay for protection wich hampers only our ease of use and nothing else.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
In Tech Review (Score:2)
by sielwolf on Thursday August 22, @11:21AM (#4118894)
(User #246764 Info | http://www.cse.msu.edu/~schloman/ | Last Journal: Thursday August 22, @04:15PM)
This technology was mentioned in this month's Technology Review. Sadly it only seems that it was in the print version.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Contradictions (Score:2)
by unsinged int on Thursday August 22, @11:22AM (#4118902)
(User #561600 Info)
Title: CD Copy Stopper

Okay...

Later: You can copy the CD

Sounds effective. Then: without the card the software won’t run.

Hmm...okay. So we've copied it to another CD. There isn't a card anymore. Why's the card needed?

Earlier: A “smart card” embedded in the CD unlocks the disc’s encrypted content.

Oh. So we rip an ISO off the CD, crack the encryption to form an unencrypted ISO, and burn it back to another CD.

Gee, like that's not gonna happen.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Is this the copy-proofing technology........ (Score:5, Funny)
by Ride-My-Rocket (vejitasweeps@hotmail.com) on Thursday August 22, @11:24AM (#4118920)
(User #96935 Info)
.... that is able to outmaneuver my Sharpie pen?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
No hardware changes needed? Really? (Score:4, Interesting)
by Anonymous Canard on Thursday August 22, @11:24AM (#4118924)
(User #594978 Info)
It seems pretty disingenuous to me for them to claim that their technology is compatible with current hardware. Where hardware and firmware are sold as a single entity, I read that expecting to find some sort of protection system that would interact with current firmware, but they clearly need a trusted client on the device to interact with the smart card since they have to rely on that software not giving away the decrypt key. In other words, these may play on the current mechanical hardware, but they certainly won't play on current CD or DVD players without first getting a firmware upgrade. In all this isn't much different from shipping a separate smart card and CD-ROM.

At least I can't see any way to trust a client once it has been transferred to the general purpose computing platform; at that point the software is open to inspection and its secrets won't remain hidden very long.

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LED? (Score:1)
by Digital_Quartz on Thursday August 22, @11:25AM (#4118933)
(User #75366 Info | http://www.thedreaming.org)
So the CD sends information to the drive using an on-board LED.... What powers this LED? Am I going to have to recharge my copy of Quake before I can use it?

Perhaps little magnets on springs! Then they could just stop and restart the disc spinning several times to move the magnets around, and use induction to run the LED.

Anyways, ultimately all you have to do to defeat this is to write some software that asks the smart card for it's key, then write some more software to make a decrypted copy of the disk
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Re:LED? by Mitchell Mebane (Score:1) Thursday August 22, @11:47AM
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I think you guys are confused (Score:1, Insightful)
by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 22, @11:26AM (#4118942)
Most of the comments so far are about the RIAA, MPAA, CDs, DVDs, etc. I think you're missing the point of this technology. The idea seems to be that by embedding a smart card in the disc, some piece of software can check that the disc is actually the original. This does not in any way prevent you from copying it. All it does is allow some appropriately knowledgeable piece of software to distinguish the copy from the original.

You know all those PC games that require you to have the CD in the drive in order to play, even though the game itself is fully installed on the hard drive? This is just a more sophisticated version of that. But now, if you copy the disc, the software will be able to distinguish between its original disc and the copy (and presumably refuse to run if the disc is a copy).

Thus it is only applicable to executable content, not to data-only music CDs or DVDs. It could only be made applicable to them with external help-- there would have to be something in the players that knew to check the smart card to determine authenticity.

At least that's the way I read it. But I could be wrong.
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clumsy dongle (Score:1)
by hanwen (hanwen@cs.uu.nl.nospam) on Thursday August 22, @11:26AM (#4118945)
(User #8589 Info | http://www.cs.uu.nl/~hanwen | Last Journal: Tuesday September 04, @05:40AM)
this seems like the emperors new clothes: they are gluing together a dongle and a CD, and to make it backwards compatible with CD rom drives, the disc contains electronics and a led to flash back signals at the drive. Sounds very clumsy to me.

With much less technical effort, you could make a small USB device that does the same. It's not glued together with the CD, but who cares?

[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Insufficient. (Score:2, Insightful)
by Faile on Thursday August 22, @11:28AM (#4118966)
(User #465836 Info | http://faile.chas.nu)
This wont work. It doesnt sound any different from the protections companies employ now where the CD has a magic key or secret uncopyable section on it. Pirates simply copy the part of the CD that is readable and then use a cracked executable distributed on the CD that doesnt bother looking for the secret section or bytes.

Until it's impossible to copy all the information on a CD this is the way illegal games and applications are distributed. This innovation, however ingenious wont make a dent in the pirate industry.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Records (Score:1)
by zmalone (diff@mac.com) on Thursday August 22, @11:29AM (#4118968)
(User #542264 Info)
This sort of thing is really starting to get tedious. I don't know if the copy protection will be broken when it is originally released, and as such, I'm ambivalent about buying any music that might be using it, or other copy protection schemes. Between the lower prices, and the lack of copy protection, its almost worth moving to vinyl, the hip image that records have is just a side effect.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Techno-weenies (Score:1)
by Dalcius (duckmanins@ h o t m ail.com) on Thursday August 22, @11:29AM (#4118972)
(User #587481 Info)
It is impracticable to crack since it is hardware based

Didn't we already teach these techno-weenies that there is no such thing as client side security, in hardware or software?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
errr. how does this work? (Score:1)
by gl4ss on Thursday August 22, @11:30AM (#4118986)
(User #559668 Info | http://jussila.adsl.netsonic.fi/~glass/)
like, having dynamic content on cd-rom? err? how? wtf? and it'll work with my old 2x mitsumi too? and it'll be cheaper than usb/parallel/serial/whatever dongle?
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the copy protection scheme of the day... (Score:1)
by thanasakis on Thursday August 22, @11:30AM (#4118992)
(User #225405 Info)
Ok now my day is complete! Is it my imagination or almost everyday there is a different story at slashdot about "the new cd protection scheme". Does ***anyone*** believe that this crackpot scheme has any ***remote*** chance of being used in the next 1000 years??? What else will they think of next, mr. data's fractal encryption???
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Is that a typo ? Or r u kidding ? (Score:1)
by USS.Spock on Thursday August 22, @11:30AM (#4118997)
(User #602532 Info | http://praveen-linux.8m.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday August 22, @11:55AM)
Just a thought, is the product obscure or obsecure (maybe we need to re-invent the wheel on this one). Btw one thing that got left out of this discussion is that the technology wont even let me make a copy of my favorite CD ?, come on, u have to be kidding. Illegal MP3's ? ok i do agree, but what if i don't want a single scratch on my CD and i need a backup CD ? Surely you got to be out of your mind to think i'll buy 2 CD's for the same content ? Think about it guys.....
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