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July 10th, 2002
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  Maricopa County to local LUG: We're happy with Microsoft  
Wednesday July 10, 2002 - [ 09:37 AM GMT ]   Print this Article
Topic - Advocacy
-  -By Grant Gross -
Members of the Phoenix Linux Users Group have come away from a meeting with the Maricopa County CIO with mixed feelings, saying the county is "deeply entrenched" in Microsoft products even though it has a clause in its procurement procedures for debarring contractors who've been busted for illegal business practices.

As we all know, Microsoft has been convicted of antitrust violations in a U.S. court. PLUG members used that hook to set up a meeting with Lin Thatcher, the county's CIO, and other county officials. Twenty-three PLUG members showed up, outnumbering the county employees there by nearly a four-to-one margin, but members say it'll take more than just the one meeting to change the county's mind.

"The meeting started out with them basically laying the background that they were happy with Microsoft and they weren't interested in changing because Microsoft software simplifies their life," says PLUG member Matt Alexander. "There were also comments about not wanting to introduce any new technologies because it's taken their tech people a long time to become pros with Microsoft software, and they don't want to disrupt that. I've worked in IT for two large companies, and I understand the benefits of standardizing systems, but I was still disappointed that they're not exploring the use of Free Software more on the desktop to save costs and to use as leverage when negotiating contracts with Microsoft."

County officials, who run Windows on their 12,000 desktops and laptops but some Unix elsewhere, argued that only 5% of the county's IT budget goes to Microsoft, so a switch to Linux and other Open Source software wouldn't mean a large cost-savings. The county hangs on to most desktops for three years, and the standard office package in use is MS Office 97.

"Just because it's 'only 5%' doesn't mean that we should be spending the money if there are equivalent products available for free," Alexander says. "There are several reasons why this issue is important to us. We would like our government to use less expensive, but still fully capable, software alternatives to save tax dollars. We would like our government to use document formats that are not tied to a particular vendor's proprietary product. We also prefer that our government no longer financially support a convicted illegal monopolist."

PLUG member Robert Bushman says there was a little good news coming out of the meeting. The county is considering some trial Linux print and fax servers, and the county is targeting platform independence for its Web sites and documents, even though some of its sites now don't work without MS Internet Explorer. Bushman was also encouraged that the county officials said they were willing to talk again.

However, Bushman was mostly discouraged. "As we suspected, Maricopa has no legal obligation to debar Microsoft -- it's an option," he says. "Maricopa believes that if they did debar Microsoft, Microsoft would fight it. Maricopa perceives no significant pain in its relationship with Microsoft, and sees the price as reasonable.

"Maricopa has no serious intent to do anything to alter its dependent relationship with Microsoft, and is not interested in trialing Linux," he adds. "We are barking up the wrong tree."

The meeting with came about because of a PLUG letter-writing campaign to several government agencies including Maricopa County, which includes the city of Phoenix and has a larger population than 17 U.S. states. After member George Toft found the procurement language, PLUG members brought up several concerns with the county officials, including encouraging open standards and the use of tax dollars for expensive software.

But the main point, says PLUG steering committee member Hans Kugler, was concerns over the county doing business with a company convicted of breaking the law. "For me personally, the issue is the support of an illegally maintained monopoly," he says. "The government should attempt to distance itself from companies found guilty of breaking the law. Making contracts guaranteeing exclusivity of a certain market with a company is not a way to distance oneself from the company. When that company also uses those activities to force everyone to use their product (hence the term, "Microsoft tax"), then the government has the added responsibility to act against that in order to help protect the taxpayers."

Kugler does give county officials credit for being the only group to meet with the PLUG letter-writers, and he and Alexander are more positive about the meeting than Bushman is.

"We went in expecting them not to budge," Kugler says. "We would've been happily surprised if they'd changed their strategies, but we certainly didn't expect it. We were under the impression that Maricopa County has banned all operating systems other than those sold by Microsoft. We found out that they haven't and that they employ three different brands of *NIX. We have questions about the details, but it was a good start."

Kugler was also encouraged by the response of PLUG, with 23 members showing up to an 8:30 a.m. Monday meeting on six day's notice. "We have to admit that many in our culture go to great extents to not need to be anywhere but asleep at 08:30 on a Monday morning," he says. "All in all, I think we had a good showing. We've also established that while we're serious and we can mobilize we are interested in working with the government rather than taking a confrontational stance," he says.

Kugler and Alexander say their campaign won't stop here. Kugler says the group needs to do more research on government procurements and refocus its letter-writing campaign. Alexander hopes PLUG members can establish deeper relationship with county IT workers and show them the benefits of Free Software while clearing up some misconceptions.

"Once the techies can demonstrate proficiency with Free Software, then it will be much easier for upper management to give their stamp of approval," he says. "The county is deeply entrenched in Microsoft technologies for the sole reason that Microsoft products work very well with other Microsoft products. It's understandable that a large organization would try to simplify its computing environment by standardizing on a particular vendor or product line, but we have definite concerns about their long-term dependence on Microsoft technologies and the repercussions on taxpayers and those of us that choose to run non-Microsoft software.

"Maricopa County also perceives other cost-saving benefits to using Microsoft software, such as less training required to get a new employee to a productive state, whether they're a desktop user or working in the IT department," he adds. "In addition, the county equates a company's market share with long-term stability, which is an additional challenge to Free Software gaining a foothold within the county."


 

( Post a new comment )

Is anyone really expecting something else?      (#18902)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.07.10 6:30


I mean, honestly, how viable is open source solutions as a whole at this point? There are lots of zealots out there who says all kind off BS but the reality is something else.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Microsoft's probable reaction      (#18906)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.07.10 7:07


Good, they're solid, no need for any discounts or giveaways. But we're getting only 5% of their IT budget!? Seems wrong... maybe it's time for an audit.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
    5% ?!? by Anonymous Reader 2002.07.10 9:06

What fools      (#18908)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.07.10 7:24


Just wait until they have to updgrad all their current PCs because MS will not support them anymore i.e windows 95, not to mention how much MS office costs.

The training issue is bull, you will have to train everyone on a new version of office anyway, or a new version of windows.
They could be using all Linux products with the same ammount of informal training they do now with windows.
They should at least consider using linux for servers and databases i.e. Firebird http://www.ibphoeinix.com is really nice and can replace MS SQL server nicely.


[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Quality Products are a real issue      (#18911)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.07.10 7:37


StarOffice fonts, for example, still do not match those in MS Office (although they are a damn sight better than those in OpenOffice).

Most of these people use computers almost exclusively for word processing.

What we need is a project to produce some great fonts for X... something to replace the MS Standard.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Lawsuit      (#18912)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.07.10 7:38


Ummm... If the county is breaking the law, sue them.
Lawsuits need not be only for money, although an amount must be given. One can sue to enforce the provisions of the law. Once a court has ruled, the county MUST follow the ruling regardless of the preferences of the IT staff.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Illegal monopolies      (#18916)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.07.10 8:30


"We also prefer that our government no longer financially support a convicted illegal monopolist"

The last I checked, government is the largest purveyor of illegal monopolies. How many of these great liberal government programs, which are usually mandatory to participate in, are actually given permission for under the constitution (US only comment)? So I am not surprised one bit when the government wants to help support a so called corporate monopolist. At least Microsoft can't put you in prison if you don't use windows.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Did you ask what they want?      (#18935)
by DCallaghan on 2002.07.10 9:26   | User Info |


So, you came into a room with a large group, doubling the number of people in attendance on their side, demanding that they rip out their system in favor of your system because that's what you want and issuing vague legal threats if they refuse to cease and desist.

May I suggest a different approach for other LUGs next time. Find out what they want, then show them how they can get it.

Approach your local government in a friendly, helpful manner. Say that you are a local community computer group who is interested in helping your local government use its IT budget more efficiently. You have a broad range of products and services from which to choose, so find out what they need. Every system has its problems.

Web server problems? Show them the Netcraft Numbers. Does the library need some thin clients and web access? How's their file server? Print server? DHCP? Database?

Linux is a muture, professional platform. Represent it accordingly.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Hell no, sue their fat asses!      (#18961)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.07.10 11:49


If you have laws prohibiting them from using Microsoft products, do enforce it!!!

Microsoft spends millions of dollars trying to dig a grave for free software, let's pay'em back.

No need to turn the other cheek, we're not Jesus.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

Ye until ....      (#18963)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.07.10 12:34


The day comes when Microsoft's virus like software destroys your notepad and all your work...

yip, one day while using Microsft's development tools I started hitting bug after bug until finally the blue screens corrupted my hard drive.
My work was lost and that was the end of my laptop.

I never thought I'd have my attitude towards them, but now I'm happily running linux with java and never ever want to see a win pc
another red screen or exceptional blue screen.

viva la fuckmicrosft.com
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

What functionality is important to Maricopa?      (#18997)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.07.10 15:20


I'm sorry to see that neither the article or many of the replies posted here discuss the critical question: what functionality does Maricopa require? Only with reference to that question can the issue of Maricopa's adopting linux be addressed. I'll bet they are using some specialized mapping software, for example, that runs only on M$. But I would also bet that most of its employees are just using standard productivity software for which very good, inexpensive Linux options exist.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]

County Attorney Usage...      (#19012)
by Anonymous Reader on 2002.07.10 16:02


A family member of mine works as a lawyer in the Maricopa County Attorney's office, and has fast become the "guru" for using Microsoft software. Actually, after you see the extensive list I have below and consider the contention that switching would "require too much training," one must wonder whether it is time a technically-savvy person gets into office somewhere to get this ball rolling in the right direction.

Here, from what she tells me, is what they use:

+MS Word to create documents of various kinds. Lawyers actually prefer WordPerfect, since WP has lots of template and form tools already available geared toward preparation of legal documents (parts go where they need to, line numbers, etc, all easy to set up). The CA office mandated, however, that MS Office is the way to go. Thus, MS Office was installed everywhere (not sure if 97 or 2000).

+Internet Explorer to access county databases, which have web-based front ends.

+Adobe Acrobat to prepare archive versions of documents

+Custom database tools, at least one of which runs under DOS (so they use Win98ME), to access databases which do not have web front ends.

+Of course, MS Outlook for email (with stiff restrictions on external email, even if it is work-related).

That's about it. Clearly, no free software tools could meet those complex and diverse needs...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
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