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Dell No Longer Selling Systems w/o Microsoft OS
MicrosoftPosted by CmdrTaco on Saturday August 10, @12:17PM
from the yer-bringing-me-down-man dept.
Some Sys Admin sent in an email that he got from Dell which basically says Microsoft will no longer allow Dell to sell PCs without an operating system. Please note that Microsoft is not a monopoly, and does not use their monopoly power to squish competition in the market place. The message itself is attached below, and is worth a read, especially the last bit.

UPDATES

1. Effective 8/26 - New Microsoft contract rules stipulate that we can no longer offer the "NO OS" option to our customers beyond September 1st. As such all customers currently purchasing a "NO OS" option on either OptiPlex, Precison or Latitude for the express purpose of loading a non-MS OS will have the following options:

1. Purchase a Microsoft OS with each OptiPlex, Precision or Latitude system.

2. For OptiPlex and Precision - purchase one of the new "nSeries" products (offered for GX260, WS340 & WS530 - details in the attached FAQ) that are being created to address a different OS support requirement other than a current standard Microsoft OS.

We must have all "No OS" orders shipped out of the factory by September 1st. The "No OS" legend code and SKUs will be I-coded on 8/19 and D-coded on August 26th to ensure shipment of orders prior to September 1st. FYI - this effects all of our competitors as well.

 

 
foregather  (578505)
[ Preferences ]

Related Links
· Some Sys Admin
· More on Microsoft
· Also by CmdrTaco

<  Delivering an Earth-Shattering Discovery? | Flugtag, Human Powered Flying Machine Competition  >
Dell No Longer Selling Systems w/o Microsoft OS | Preferences | Top | 917 comments (Spill at 50!) | Index Only | Search Discussion
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  • Wasn't this one of the bigger issues? Saturday August 10, @12:20PM
  • MS OS Saturday August 10, @12:20PM
    • Monopoly (Score:4, Interesting)
    by Rosonowski (rosonowski@yahoo.spambites.com) on Saturday August 10, @12:21PM (#4046137) Alter Relationship
    (User #250492 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
    Interestingly enough, I was trying to explain this same concept to my father no longer then an hour ago. I'll have to show him this note.

    He seems to beleive that "they just make the better product, so people buy it. That's why they are so big. Not because they're an evil company"
    ---- Fnord.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    Fine with me (Score:4, Interesting)
    by corebreech (corebreech@yahoo.com) on Saturday August 10, @12:21PM (#4046138) Alter Relationship
    (User #469871 Info)
    I'm no longer buying systems that come with Microsoft OS's.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • huh? Saturday August 10, @12:21PM
  • :P Saturday August 10, @12:21PM
  • That pretty much does it. Saturday August 10, @12:21PM
  • That muct be a pretty intimate contract Saturday August 10, @12:22PM
  • 2004 headline Saturday August 10, @12:22PM
    • 2005 headline by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @02:06PM
  • Reaction... by koh (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:22PM
  • Sounds like fraud to me? by Lewis Mettler, Esq. (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:23PM
    • Re:Sounds like fraud to me? by 'nuffsaidguy (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:14PM
      • Re:Sounds like fraud to me? (Score:4, Insightful)
      by dbrutus on Saturday August 10, @01:33PM (#4046661) Alter Relationship
      (User #71639 Info | http://www.laycatholic.org)
      Actually MS fraud would be more like their statement that their OSDN kits contain the complete Win32 API and that there are no secret API calls reserved for MS developers. That's an actual material fraud made over the course of several years and has changed the course of computing.

      A lot of people believed in that promise and it gave MS the largest ISV community on the planet. And it was all built on a lie, one that MS now claims it never made.

      What completely blows me away is that all the anti-MS people can't get their act together enough to document it and bring a class-action lawsuit based on it.
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      • Con-men, Microsoft and pathetic liars by Lewis Mettler, Esq. (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @02:02PM
        • Re:Con-men, Microsoft and pathetic liars by dbrutus (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @02:08PM
            Re:Con-men, Microsoft and pathetic liars (Score:5, Interesting)
            by Lewis Mettler, Esq. (lmettler@laml a w . com) on Saturday August 10, @02:36PM (#4047024) Alter Relationship
            (User #553022 Info | http://www.lamlaw.com/)
            Actually, the libertarian and conservative factions are based less upon anti-trust ideology than just "anti-government anything". This is particularly true with the Cato Institute. They do not defend Microsoft as against AOL but rather just think the government should stay out of it.

            As for fraud, you do need the deception or lie (and it only needs to deceive) but you also need the transaction where they get your money.

            Lying to consumers about the price of IE is one example. You can lie and claim the billion dollar development project has no affect upon the price of the product, but the law says otherwise. Economics say otherwise. Corporations simply do not spend billions in R&D for a product they do not think they will get a return on. They just do not do that. Looking at the price of the OS before and after IE is bundled is not the test. As a matter of law, each item in the box is attributed to have received some of that money. And, even Microsoft claimed to stockholders that some money they get is allocated to IE. Of course, they tell stockholders one thing (the returns) but lie to the public (free product). But, when as a matter of law it is not free (as was in fact decided by Judge Jackson and not overturned by the appellate court) then saying it is free is fraudulent. And, perhaps actionable fraud.

            The consumer class action suits against Microsoft are not over yet either. It will be interesting to see if some of that action is based upon fraud. Most likely it is but I have not read the complaints. There is about 100 of them. So, I am sure more than one made a claim for fraud in addition to the antitrust violations.

            The problem with the API claim is with the money aspect. When Microsoft claims that no APIs are hiddle and developers are duped, technically they are not buying the product. Rather they are developing and helping to support it. They have been conned just the same. But, for actionable fraud some money or property has to flow from the mark to the deceiving liar. And, I do not think the mark has to actually believe the lie and in fact rely upon it. I think in many jurisdictions it is enough that the claim is false and the false claim was made for the purpose of getting the money or property. Some "marks" may very well not believe a statement but go along anyway suffering as the result (out of their money).

            The FTC could be more instrumental here. Just as with PassPort, if claims are false, they should be held accountable. But, then as with PassPort, sometimes the "criminal" just agrees to stop while keeping tbe benefit of the false statements to date.

            That is why it is very important that the illegal gains made by Microsoft in the browser market be turned back. Antitrust law is supposed to be capable of undoing illegal gains. But, if IE is not placed into open source by the remedy or IE's share of the market is not restricted or returned to 20% or so, the antitrust laws failed. And, anyone looking at that will just assume they are of no value. That is what Gates said and thinks. And, that is why that idiot violates federal law so much.

            In the end, Gates may decide it was not worth it. But, if the AOL judgement is less that 10 billion or so, Gates will be conviced that illegal means are good business.


            Lewis A. Mettler, Esq. (lamlaw.com) Attorney and Software Developer
            [ Reply to This | Parent ]
      • Re:Sounds like fraud to me? Saturday August 10, @09:40PM
    • Re:Sounds like fraud to me? Saturday August 10, @02:39PM
  • Hey Michael Dell Saturday August 10, @12:23PM
  • What do they mean? by boa13 (Score:3) Saturday August 10, @12:24PM
  • I see this two ways.... by Ian_Bailey (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:24PM
  • Antitrust information... by hklingon (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:24PM
  • What about the attached FAQ? by FeriteCore (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:24PM
  • You know.... by JoeLinux (Score:3) Saturday August 10, @12:24PM
  • Well... by Relyt (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:24PM
  • If you want a notebook w/o an OS by Rude Turnip (Score:3) Saturday August 10, @12:24PM
  • I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymo Saturday August 10, @12:24PM
  • No need to disclaim... Saturday August 10, @12:25PM
    • It's a shame... (Score:4, Insightful)
    by EraseEraseMe on Saturday August 10, @12:25PM (#4046174) Alter Relationship
    (User #167638 Info)
    The second the computer hardware industry gets over it's undying need to profit and destroy its competitors, it can finally do something about Microsoft. If they were all to tell MS at the same time "Hey, guess what, we're going to dictate the terms of what OS goes on our machines now", then MS would be up a creek without a paddle. Unfortunately, the likelihood of this happening is slim to nil, the second a large comp manufacturer did this, the others would go the other way and run to MS saying "Look at what CompStore2002 is doing! We won't do that, give us a break on the licensing!"

    Microsoft is using the greed of the industry against itself. Without hardware to run it on, software is useless, and Microsoft is useless. They are in a far more precarious position then they let on...Maybe it's time to give them a little scare

    Join the Campaign to erase EraseMe!

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • This stinks, but... by vex24 (Score:3) Saturday August 10, @12:25PM
    • That shouldn't matter. (Score:5, Funny)
    by russianspy on Saturday August 10, @12:25PM (#4046181) Alter Relationship
    (User #523929 Info)
    Who cares?

    Microsoft is a company that understands their users, right? If I choose to simply boot out of a linux installation CD and NEVER access the windows partition or use any of those programs, they'll give me my money back. Right?

    Right?
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Dude, You're Stuck With a Dell by egg troll (Score:3) Saturday August 10, @12:25PM
    • This is what essentially killed Be (Score:4, Interesting)
    by mikael (mikael@fetfett.nu) on Saturday August 10, @12:26PM (#4046184) Alter Relationship
    (User #484 Info | http://fetfett.nu/)
    Remember BeOS? The new OS on x86 that got killed by MS. They couldn't get vendors to ship their systems dual boot with Windows and BeOS due to MS policy. I don't understand why Be (who still are in opreration with one employee :) uses this fact and goes to trial.

    Scott Hacker has a great column on this called He Who Controls the Bootloader [byte.com]

    :q!
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Initiative for Software Choice by Danta (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:26PM
  • I buy a lot of Dells at work by Raleel (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:26PM
  • You were fooled... Saturday August 10, @12:26PM
  • Big Government = Big Business by cyberconte (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:26PM
  • Why does MS try these kinda things? by jayant_techguy (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:26PM
  • But you can still buy linux preinstalled, right(?) Saturday August 10, @12:26PM
  • Holy Shit by Tranvisor (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:27PM
      the judge will not know (Score:5, Informative)
      by Lewis Mettler, Esq. (lmettler@laml a w . com) on Saturday August 10, @12:42PM (#4046346) Alter Relationship
      (User #553022 Info | http://www.lamlaw.com/)
      This announcement will not have any affect upon the current litigation. At least not the case by the States.

      The reason is that all testimony has already been taken.

      It is just like the stupid decision by the appellate court that Microsoft did not try to monopolize the browser market. That was clearly incorrect but the court is strapped with the evidence in the case as of the testimony. And as of years earlier, Microsoft only acheived about a 50% market share. And, with those facts before the appellate court, you are likely to get such an opinion.

      However, when the AOL case gets to the jury, facts will be completely different. Then 90-95% will be evidence. Very different indeed.

      That is a basic problem with the legal system and it is why Microsoft lawyers can lie in public the way they do. Microsoft lawyers lie to the press and to the public based upon old facts that are clearly no longer relevant. But, to the ignorant, it is a sale.

      Funny, however, that Microsoft again starts to lie about having a monopoly.

      But, they are just a bunch of cheap liars anyway. They have proven that numerous times.

      Remember the idiot under oath who told the judge that SUNs JVM was not included with XP because of the GPL?

      And, remember the idiot that told the judge that Microsoft will withdraw from the market if it does not like the judgment?

      And, remember the three stouges that each claimed they thought removing icons had something to do with commingled code.

      Microsoft's lies are not even credable and yet they spit them out to defraud consumers. And, the judges as it turns out.


      Lewis A. Mettler, Esq. (lamlaw.com) Attorney and Software Developer
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • not new by Jose (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:27PM
    • Re:not new by painkillr (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:45PM
      • Re:not new Saturday August 10, @01:36PM
      • Re:not new by ceejayoz (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @02:45PM
        • Re:not new by Fulcrum of Evil (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @07:54PM
          • Re:not new by ceejayoz (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @11:53PM
    • Re:not new Saturday August 10, @05:36PM
    • dude.. by tomaat (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @09:16PM
  • Crazy Mike Dell here...!!!!!!! by i_want_you_to_throw_ (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:27PM
  • BYOS! by DraKKon (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:28PM
  • This issue is simple to explain by cyberlotnet (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:29PM
  • Dell is just as guily and som FUD! by puto (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:29PM
  • This isn't so much monopoly as it is... by Ieshan (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:29PM
    • Here we go again (Score:4, Interesting)
    by starseeker on Saturday August 10, @12:29PM (#4046218) Alter Relationship
    (User #141897 Info | http://screenshots.sourceforge.net)
    Well, this might mean any of several things:

    a) There has been some legal development in what's left of the legal arguement that we don't know about, but is distinctly in Microsoft's favor, and has made them more bold

    b) Dell might have decided that the "No OS" clause doesn't restrict them from selling Linux boxes, and along with other vendors allowed Microsoft to set these terms to get cheaper licenses. What Microsoft defines as "No OS" isn't clear, but Linux certainly isn't "No OS", at least here in the real world.

    c) Microsoft is becoming increasingly worried that the legal proceedings are not going well, and wants to get this new contract into effect before the judge forbids such moves

    d) Or the most likely of all - Microsoft is ignoring all legal and consumer issues and is being openly anticompetitive in order to milk the cash cow some more. Maybe they believe that if they act like the consumer doesn't and shouldn't give a rip about it, it will be true.

    Homework? What homework?

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Why this is a GOOD thing Saturday August 10, @12:30PM
  • So you still have a few choices... by bziman (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:30PM
  • Sucky? Yeah, but... by StandardDeviant (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:30PM
  • Just don't buy Dell by M_Talon (Score:3) Saturday August 10, @12:30PM
  • What? by electricmonk (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:30PM
    • Re:What? Saturday August 10, @01:14PM
    • Re:What? by ceejayoz (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @02:49PM
  • What the by Winterblink (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:30PM
  • What to make of this? by tempestdata (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:30PM
  • Why hasn't anyone mentioned... by handsomepete (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:31PM
  • Opt out by nornbasher (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:31PM
    • Re:Opt out by slakdrgn (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:40PM
      • Re:Opt out by psavo (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @01:20PM
  • m$ Saturday August 10, @12:31PM
  • Hmm, easily worked around. by msgmonkey (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:31PM
  • Funny Thing... by mprinkey (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:31PM
  • Fact-checking, anyone? by Golias (Score:3) Saturday August 10, @12:32PM
  • Why does buying a new computer... by Ieshan (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:32PM
  • Hmm Which is Better? by Cytlid (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:32PM
  • fork the production line by dotslashdotdot (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:32PM
  • Why do I not believe you? by Guppy06 (Score:3) Saturday August 10, @12:33PM
  • The new "Urban PC: Nigga with a Giga" Saturday August 10, @12:33PM
  • Dell systems Saturday August 10, @12:33PM
  • i thought they already didn't offer a no os option by bmwm3nut (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:33PM
  • oh come on by jiminy (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:33PM
  • Editors, Put Up or Shut UP by Pave Low (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:33PM
  • Dude, you're getting a dell! by Ieshan (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:34PM
  • This might explain why... by JSCarr (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:35PM
  • What's even worse: by dbCooper0 (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:36PM
  • I'd just like to point out... by MattW (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:36PM
  • And I just bought one... by mlrtime (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:36PM
  • F$^% Microsoft!!! Saturday August 10, @12:37PM
  • DELL is now a part off MS body by dmnss (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:37PM
  • An interesting link on microsofts'website Saturday August 10, @12:37PM
  • Two licenses's... by edgrale (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:38PM
  • Or could the SysAdmin be fill of it Saturday August 10, @12:42PM
  • MS vs. Linux Saturday August 10, @12:43PM
  • Probably does not include servers. by expunged (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:43PM
  • What would happen if Dell said No!? by borwells (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:43PM
  • What?! You're actaully suprised by this? by jwiegley (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:43PM
    • Just so people know how this works... (Score:5, Insightful)
    by EatenByAGrue on Saturday August 10, @12:43PM (#4046355) Alter Relationship
    (User #210447 Info)
    I see lots of angry condemations here - but this is actually very typical price negotiation. Microsoft didn't go to Dell and tell them they couldn't sell PCs with other OSes or they wouldn't sell them Windows any more. Microsoft went to Dell and offered them huge discounts to Windows if they signed an exclusive offer. Dell saw the dollar signs and agreed.

    Dell has done a pretty good job with their letter blaming MS...but MS would be ignoring basic business practices if it didn't offer and option like this. I'm sure Dell is happy with the deal and laughing all the way to the bank.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Doesn't this screw volume licensers? by Solanalos (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:44PM
  • One thing to note by hackwrench (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:46PM
  • Can this title please be changed? Saturday August 10, @12:46PM
  • what about site licenses? Saturday August 10, @12:47PM
  • So what's the big deal? by MLC2012 (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:49PM
  • Scenario by macdaddy (Score:3) Saturday August 10, @12:49PM
      Actually no.... (Score:4, Insightful)
      by sterno (sterno at bigbrother dot net) on Saturday August 10, @01:24PM (#4046622) Alter Relationship
      (User #16320 Info | http://www.bigbrother.net/sterno/)
      To illustrate the monopoly issue here, what would actually happen is this. Firestone would tell Ford that they have to outfit everything with firestone tires. Then Ford would put out a bid to the other manufacturers to provide a replacement for Firestone's tire. One of them would undercut Firestone, if for no other reason, than to keep them from taking over Ford's tires, and that'd be that. This is what happens in a competitive market, unlike what we see in the O/S market.
      ---
      Listen [live365.com] to the voices inside your head...
      [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Re:Scenario by qubit64 (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:32PM
    • Re:Scenario by BarefootClown (Score:3) Saturday August 10, @05:09PM
  • dump the unused os's on ebay... by scharkalvin (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:50PM
    • Gedanken Experiment (Score:4, Insightful)
    by underwhelm ([mosengc] [at] [qwest.net]) on Saturday August 10, @12:50PM (#4046407) Alter Relationship
    (User #53409 Info | http://www.underwhelm.org | Last Journal: Wednesday October 03, @02:37PM)
    Imagine the same action taken by a large publisher in the bookselling industry.

    Barnes and Noble: "Our contract with HarperCollins stipulates we can no longer sell blank journals or college ruled notebooks. Customers will have the following options:

    1. Purchase a book published by HarperCollins.
    2. Purchase a book published by another publisher.

    HarperCollins demanded this because we all know people don't use blank paper to write their own stories or notes, but to pirate their intellectual property.

    FYI-This affects all our competitors as well."

    I don't need large brains to have a good time.

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • oh well by nege (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @12:51PM
  • SlashSnot Saturday August 10, @12:52PM
  • What about Wal-mart? by carambola5 (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:52PM
  • Dude... Saturday August 10, @12:52PM
  • We just bought HP for linux 9i RAC by codepunk (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:54PM
  • Does this only apply to consumers? Saturday August 10, @12:55PM
  • Is this an american thing? Saturday August 10, @12:55PM
  • Bah.. by Deltan (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @12:56PM
    • Re:Bah.. by ralmin (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:07PM
    • Re:Bah.. Saturday August 10, @01:09PM
    • Re:Bah.. by pavera (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:12PM
  • Effects Saturday August 10, @12:58PM
    • EULA refund.. or not. (Score:5, Insightful)
    by hklingon on Saturday August 10, @01:03PM (#4046496) Alter Relationship
    (User #109185 Info | http://www.wendellwilson.net/)
    Okay, sure, the EULA on Microsoft stuff has a specific clause:
    If you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, PC Manufacturer and Microsoft are unwilling to license the SOFTWARE PRODUCT to you. In such event, you may not use or copy the SOFTWARE PRODUCT, and you should promptly contact PC Manufacturer for instructions on return of the unused products(s) for a refund.
    Except that it seems to be difficult, if not impossible, to get a refund. Almost three years ago, I replaced a dead NT server (lightning, so, no, just a few parts won't do)with a white-box Win98 machine and sent Win98 away to be refunded. I was told to send it directly to M$, by M$. I'm still waiting! A lot [netcraft.com.au] ofother [zork.net] people seem to be, too. It seems to be damn near impossible to get a refund, in fact [wired.com]. And this the DoJ all heard before, as part of the anti-trust trial [usdoj.gov] Also, it seems now that OEMS must "eat" the cost of returned copies of windows, this is no longer passed back to microsoft.
     
      Look, I'm not some fanatical Linux Zealot on the fringes of society. I'm a programmer, system administrator, IT manager, whatever you want to call it. I use Linux and other free OSs, and I really hate being treated like some psycho zealot on the fringe when I try to avoid doubly (and sometimes triply) licensing microsoft software for Clients' PCs. ("You want what? We don't do that? Whats a EULA?" HP, Compaq, Gateway and now Dell. its all the same.) I mean, honestly, where is my FTC? Where is my consumer protection? It goes beyond frustrating.
     
      Wendell
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
    • Hey by inKubus (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @06:14PM
      • Re:Hey by j3110 (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @06:54PM
      • Re:Hey by hklingon (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @07:46PM
        • Re:Hey by Jerry (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @09:38PM
          • Re:Hey by hklingon (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @10:23PM
        • Re:Hey by Jerry (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @09:44PM
          • Re:Hey by hklingon (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @10:20PM
    • Re:EULA refund.. or not. by krinsh (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @10:05PM
  • Lameness, RIAA, harddrives by t_allardyce (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:05PM
  • No more dells for me by connsmythe96 (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:05PM
    • reminds me of a line from the Empire Strikes Back (Score:5, Funny)
    by darksaber on Saturday August 10, @01:06PM (#4046515) Alter Relationship
    (User #46072 Info)
    VADER: I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • freedom of choice by moqi (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:06PM
  • Forced Pallidium (sp?) DRM... by 3seas (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @01:08PM
  • As disturbing as this may be... by cpuenvy (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:09PM
  • Hmmm - Dell.com does not have a selectable NO-O/S by MobileDude (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:10PM
  • Not just a geek problem by connsmythe96 (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:12PM
  • this is awesome Saturday August 10, @01:14PM
  • Standard practice for M$ by infradead (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:14PM
  • libertarian standpoint qjkx Saturday August 10, @01:15PM
  • un-fixable flaw Saturday August 10, @01:17PM
  • This is a filthy tactic... by liquidsin (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @01:18PM
  • Did anyone read the State's anti-trust stuff by andy4us (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:20PM
  • Market opening? by dmouritsendk (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:20PM
  • Rediculous... by EdMcMan (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:21PM
  • Relating to the MS revenues vs. Linux article. by 3seas (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @01:23PM
  • I see only one way to defeat this... by jwiegley (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:26PM
  • many changes beyond Sept 1st by bryam (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:27PM
  • No-OS Dell PCs by Skooma (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:32PM
  • Europe Saturday August 10, @01:33PM
  • hmmm.. by madenosine (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:36PM
    • Re:hmmm.. by madenosine (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:40PM
  • What has happened to this world... by ReNeGaDe75 (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:40PM
  • Did anyone read that article? by XO (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:41PM
  • Windows is cheaper to support by ToasterTester (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:43PM
  • NOT TRUE! I just called DELL... Saturday August 10, @01:43PM
  • Proper response to dell by mindstrm (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @01:44PM
  • Where's the proof? by SyniK (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:45PM
  • Without an OS? by Luguber123 (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:49PM
  • Don't buy a Dell Laptop by GrEp (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @01:49PM
  • Deja Vu? by wiredlogic (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:51PM
  • The e-mail is blocked by a Microsoft ad. (!) Saturday August 10, @01:54PM
  • I wouldn't get too worried... by jasondlee (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @01:55PM
    • Didn't they agree to not do that? (Score:4, Insightful)
    by alanjstr (b2u4m001@s n e a k e m a i l.com) on Saturday August 10, @01:59PM (#4046789) Alter Relationship
    (User #131045 Info | http://iamknotheer.tripod.com)
    I thought one of the stipulations of their settlement with the DOJ was that they wouldn't do that sort of thing any more.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Dell has a big voice. They should have used it. by Ogerman (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @01:59PM
  • Dell From Hell! by kindhornman (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @01:59PM
  • MS / Bush / Ashcroft Saturday August 10, @02:00PM
    • Is it "no OS" or "no Microsoft OS"? (Score:4, Insightful)
    by Advocadus Diaboli on Saturday August 10, @02:00PM (#4046796) Alter Relationship
    (User #323784 Info)
    Well, I'm working at a big computer manufacturer in Europe. My firm also is not allowed by MS to sell a PC without an operating system.

    The funny part is, that MS want's us to sell PCs with operating system and customers wants to get PCs without a preinstalled OS.

    My firm is solving this thing by just adding a SuSE-Live-Eval CD to any PC that is delivered with an empty hard disk. So the customer is fine since he doesn't have to pay extra "MS taxes" and MS can't complain since we are shipping every PC with an operating system.

    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Why doesn't Dell just change "No OS" to... Saturday August 10, @02:03PM
  • Troll Saturday August 10, @02:11PM
  • Doctor please can you get Dell a backbone Saturday August 10, @02:13PM
  • All of their competitors? Saturday August 10, @02:14PM
  • Perhaps its a matter of technical support by mesocyclone (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @02:17PM
  • Alternative OSes OK, no OS is not Saturday August 10, @02:18PM
  • The Microsoft Tax by GuNgA-DiN (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @02:22PM
    • This is Dell we're talkin about here. (Score:5, Insightful)
    by t0qer on Saturday August 10, @02:22PM (#4046930) Alter Relationship
    (User #230538 Info | http://www.kaillera....topic=1743&forum=5&0 | Last Journal: Saturday August 10, @03:44PM)
    Dell makes great stuff, but hardly worth the price it fetches.

    I just slapped together a dual p4 xeon2.0ghz system for 2500. It has a gig of rambus, 80 gighd, DVD burner and a gforce4ti4200 something a rather.

    Dell only offered Xeons in the p3 flavor, similiar setup for around 800 dollars more.

    I used to be a sysadmin, I know all the service benefits dell gives (pre-imaged systems, 24hr on-site part replacement, ect) but I think if you compare the cost a network being admin'ed by dell with a sysadmin who just "makes calls to dell" all day to the cost of a network being admin'd by a sysadmin who maintains an inventory of spare parts, uses ghost or NT2k Remote installation services, and buys his/her parts from a local screwdriver shop I really do think you would see a huge difference.

    Parts don't really break that often, windows does. Especially outlook. Is there really a savings to pay for that dell "protection money"?

    If you're currently a sysadmin in charge of some large corporate network, speak with your dollars, not with your slashdot. Try and talk your company into standardizing on a single platform. Here let me spec out a good standard...

    Nvidia video (single unified driver = less driver headaches)
    Creative sound (the standard by which all follow)
    3com networking

    Other than the motherboards changing over the next few years you won't really need to do a lot of work to maintain these machines over the next few years. Be smart, implement home directories and tell everyone to put whatever they want backed up in there. That way you can wipe their machines without hassle.

    well, thats my 0.02. Wish I had caught the article sooner.
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • Microsoft Monopoly Strong Arm Saturday August 10, @02:23PM
  • Corroboration, please. by Observer (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @02:25PM
  • all of this because of BUSH Saturday August 10, @02:25PM
  • is Bill Hitler ? Saturday August 10, @02:26PM
  • 'No OS' still an option for servers. by redbeard_ak (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @02:27PM
  • Microsoft's final moves by Cold Drink (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @02:38PM
  • Linux isnt 'no-OS' by t_allardyce (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @02:41PM
  • Return your 3 year old computers by hansreiser (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @02:53PM
  • is this official? by csimicah (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @02:57PM
  • Cappuccino Anybody? Saturday August 10, @03:00PM
  • Sparc here we come by hspaans (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @03:10PM
  • Someone has... by Edward Teach (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @03:12PM
  • hrm by kalanar (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @03:13PM
    • Re:hrm by jx100 (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @04:57PM
    • Railroading (Score:5, Interesting)
    by Burning*Cent (baker.921NO@SPAMosu.edu) on Saturday August 10, @03:16PM (#4047228) Alter Relationship
    (User #579896 Info | http://www.amherst.k12.oh.us/index.shtml)

    I can't help but think about how MicroSoft is a monopoly-in-restraint-of-trade as bad as the American railroad ones of the 19th century.

    In the 19th century, railroad monopolies charged people fees for shipping on competing lines. The goal was that you only do business with one rail line. Microsoft's response to BeOS is much like this one. Microsoft, like the monopolistic rail lines, coerced its customers, the OEMs, not do business with a competitor. However, instead of charging imaginary fees as punishment, MS uses sealed OEM licenses to forbid them from installing dual boot OSes.

    However, I see why MicroSoft uses such tactics. If people got computers with Windows and BeOS dual boot or Windows and Mandrake Linux, people would actually realize that there's no reason to use only Windows.

    BTW, although not monopolistic or evil, MS's frequent changes to the Word format is like the railroad lines' stubbornness against choosing a standard gauge.

    On a personal not, this seems like it could have almost affected my situation. I recently bought a computer online from a NE Ohio computer company [micropro.com] without an OS. I was planning on running GNU/Linux until I began studying at OSU, where I could get a legal copy of WinXP from a Microsoft club for $5. Of course, recent /. stories on EULA changes made me decide to use Win2k instead, and I bought a Like New copy through half.com. Unfortunately, Windows refuses to run because I have an "INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE". I feel like using an illegal copy Windows if I can't get it to work.


    --
    Brian Baker
    Admiring RMS since 2002 [oreilly.com]
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • alternative Saturday August 10, @03:20PM
  • Ethics paper by mblumber (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @03:22PM
  • Dude you are...... by woogieoogieboogie (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @03:23PM
  • New Dell! by Alizarin Erythrosin (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @03:25PM
  • hmmm....No OS or No M$ OS? by jjsjeff (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @03:27PM
  • Dude, you're getting a ... Pepsi by Skapare (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @03:28PM
  • To hell with Dell.. by joshua404 (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @03:34PM
  • whatever happened to... Saturday August 10, @03:35PM
  • So build your own by time4tea (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @03:37PM
  • Well by FakePlasticDubya (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @03:50PM
  • "NO OS" versus alternate OSes? Saturday August 10, @04:00PM
  • Time to vote Ashcroft Out of Office by linuxislandsucks (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @04:02PM
  • 10 Ways To Revolt. Saturday August 10, @04:03PM
  • hmmm by trainedCodeMonkey (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @04:20PM
    • Re:hmmm by topham (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @04:35PM
  • You have no idea Saturday August 10, @04:24PM
  • So call 'em up... by cskaryd (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @04:31PM
  • One Word - WHITE BOX by iamwhatiseem (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @04:31PM
  • Site License by DustMagnet (Score:3) Saturday August 10, @04:47PM
  • 10% of turnover per conviction by mansley (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @04:50PM
  • I've been raped by fafaforza (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @04:51PM
  • DUDE USE PRICEWATCH Saturday August 10, @05:08PM
  • Good news for Penguin Computing... by jcr (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @05:10PM
  • MS Ease of Use??? by ericman31 (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @05:26PM
  • Congratulations DOJ! Saturday August 10, @05:29PM
  • "Duuuuude, you're getting screwed!" Saturday August 10, @05:40PM
  • Policy meant to stop piracy by geekee (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @06:08PM
  • Fuck Dell; Build Your Own! Saturday August 10, @06:12PM
  • Anybody try to have Dell enforce the license? by Tjp($)pjT (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @06:13PM
  • "Dell No Longer Selling Systems w/o Microsoft OS" Saturday August 10, @06:14PM
  • I don't get it by mariube (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @06:15PM
  • dammm Saturday August 10, @06:22PM
  • Hasnt this happend before? by Rgb465 (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @06:39PM
  • Dell Hell Saturday August 10, @06:57PM
  • Why not ask Dell to remove the hard disk? by ctbarker32 (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @07:00PM
    • The first step to a 'trusted platform' ? (Score:5, Interesting)
    by Liquor on Saturday August 10, @07:12PM (#4048194) Alter Relationship
    (User #189040 Info | http://slashdot.org/)
    It's pretty easy to explain what this entails and why this is happening - I'll make a bet that the XP installs that Dell ships after the cutoff date won't need to be 'activated' through Microsoft, but will recognize the machine and bios as a 'licensed platform'. This effectively means that the OS license is built into the machine - so so Microsoft won't let them ship them without paying Microsoft.

    Ok, so maybe Dell will make a few machines ('n-series') that don't run Windows - but they're now a completely different machine. The previous court order stating that Microsoft cannot charge for every machine sold (regardless of OS) has now been circumvented.

    That's enough of a step backwards to behaviour already found to be illegal on it's own, but this seems to be the first step towards making manufacturers have to distinguish "Microsoft ready' machines from OS agnostic machines.

    A few more steps like this, differentiating Microsoft machines from the others, and it's a sure bet that the commodity hardware - 'Microsoft OS ready' machines - are going to be the much vaunted 'Trusted platform' - complete with a bios that will REFUSE to boot anything except a Microsoft OS.

    Yes, I'm paranoid about Microsoft's intentions. but I suspect that I'm not being paranoid enough.

    Liquor
    I'm not surprised that there are unix clones. How else can unix reproduce?
    [ Reply to This | Parent ]
  • It warms my heart by Eric Damron (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @07:36PM
  • Easy to circumvent (if Dell wanted to) by cute-boy (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @07:39PM
  • Isn't it great? by DJSystem101 (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @07:52PM
  • there is plenty of blame to go around Saturday August 10, @08:09PM
  • Build your own. Saturday August 10, @08:21PM
  • Refund Day! by dacarr (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @08:56PM
  • Anyone check the Dell site? by Strudelkugel (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @09:00PM
  • So F'ing what...... by gmac63 (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @09:02PM
  • no dividends? Saturday August 10, @09:03PM
  • bite back! Saturday August 10, @09:30PM
  • What happens when the govt has no balls by fire-eyes (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @09:36PM
  • Doesn't affect the geek population-- by Arctech (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @09:41PM
  • But I don't want the OEM license by duckygator (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @09:48PM
  • Isn't Linux an OS? by chuckbag (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @10:03PM
  • THIS is why Mac people laugh at you. Saturday August 10, @10:28PM
  • What about diskless PCs? by zerofoo (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @10:29PM
  • Options... by gibber (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @10:44PM
  • YHBT by JPriest (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @11:07PM
  • Actually... Saturday August 10, @11:39PM
  • Is This Idea Too Dumb? by ONOIML8 (Score:2) Saturday August 10, @11:41PM
  • DELL with an operating system by cgenman (Score:2) Sunday August 11, @12:46AM
  • Re:First ? ;p by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Saturday August 10, @04:48PM
  • Re:Can you say Spin Doctor Saturday August 10, @09:54PM
  • Re:Oh come on!! Tell the WHOLE story!!! Sunday August 11, @12:14AM
  • 8 replies beneath your current threshold.
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